#raspbian IRC Log


IRC Log for 2012-12-12

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:28] <Mentos> Following the XBMC install i get this error "target `zlib1g-dev:armhf' is not a directory" anyone know what gives
[0:29] <Mentos> after instruction #4
[0:29] <Mentos> from http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianXBMC
[0:29] <ParkerR_> Hmm
[0:30] <ParkerR_> What command did you run? Just the apt-get install?
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[0:41] <Mentos> nah the really long one
[0:42] <Mentos> the one that starts "install autotools-dev..."
[0:42] * luigy (~luigy@nat-alex-runet-out-7.rutgers.edu) has joined #raspbian
[0:42] <ParkerR_> Yes
[0:42] <ParkerR_> That's apt-get
[0:42] <ParkerR_> Hmm
[0:43] <Mentos> think it makes sense to go with Raspbmc?
[0:43] <ParkerR_> On another SD card, yes
[0:44] <ParkerR_> I have one for Raspbian and Raspbmc
[0:44] <Mentos> where might i find updated instructions for Raspbian XBMC install
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[0:53] <Mentos> lol wtf i ran the command a 3rd time randomly and it worked
[0:54] <Mentos> my Pi has a ghost in it
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[2:04] <gnarface> Mentos: overclock less perhaps, be more patient after the first run, or maybe check to make sure you have sufficient power?
[2:04] <gnarface> or maybe its just something with that command...
[2:06] <Opinie> might buying those extra codecs help with the bugginess of some videos streamed via XBMC? anyone have any idea?
[2:12] * scubasonar (~Matt@99-108-165-58.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:13] <Essobi> Opinie: The source is tainted?
[2:14] <Opinie> I don't understand what that means..
[2:14] <Essobi> Is what you're playing, 100% valid.
[2:15] <Opinie> yeah, I'm pretty sure it is
[2:16] <Opinie> would increasing the swap partition help?
[2:17] <Essobi> Dooubtful.
[2:17] <Essobi> What do you mean "bugginess"?
[2:17] <Opinie> bad choice of words maybe
[2:17] <Opinie> it seems to have to buffer every few seconds
[2:17] <Essobi> Is the video local?
[2:18] <Opinie> no
[2:18] <Essobi> WAN?
[2:18] <Opinie> no
[2:18] <Opinie> streaming from the interwebz
[2:18] <Essobi> ...
[2:18] <Essobi> That's what WAN is.
[2:18] <Opinie> oh sorry
[2:18] <Opinie> new concept for me that
[2:18] <Essobi> That's probably your problem.
[2:18] <Essobi> Try dling it and playing it from a local source.
[2:18] <Opinie> I refuse to accept this
[2:19] <Opinie> nah, but thanks
[2:19] <Essobi> *shrug* Believe what you want sparky, but until you do some testing, you're calling it in the dark.
[2:19] <Opinie> right
[2:19] <Opinie> I'm actually blown away by how well it works even now
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[2:44] <Mentos> Anyone know how long XBMC takes to compile?
[2:44] <Mentos> Is this something I should leave and go to bed
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[2:50] <Opinie> Mentos: depends, so probably better just go to bed
[2:54] <Mentos> i've got a class 4 SD
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[3:38] <kenny> Mentos: unless you have a reason to re-compile xbmc, I suggest going with http://michael.gorven.za.net/raspberrypi/xbmc. xbmc packages for raspbian.
[3:44] <Mentos> ah well was just following this tutorial blindly http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianXBMC
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[3:49] <kenny> Mentos: yeah, I did the same, then I waited 7 hours for it to compile, then I setup qemu to build on my laptop, then I finally found that link :)
[3:50] <Mentos> lol it takes 7 hours ?
[3:50] <Mentos> or is that how long you waited and it intact takes longer
[3:50] <kenny> it takes longer, it hadn't finished in 7 hours
[3:50] <kenny> also that link says the latest is beta 1, but there's a beta 2 version in the repo
[3:50] <kenny> I'm running it and it works great
[3:51] <Mentos> If i want to start over
[3:51] <Mentos> can i just pop my SD back in my computer, erase all of its contents and start over
[3:51] <Mentos> or is there something deeper i have to do
[3:51] <kenny> yup, that'll work
[3:52] <kenny> (posts online suggest it's about 12 hours to compile xbmc on the pi)
[3:54] <Mentos> I'm already in like 6 hours so i'll let it run for the night and see if it made it in the morning
[3:54] <Mentos> thanks for the help kenny
[3:54] <kenny> np, good luck
[3:57] <Mentos> Anyone know the difference between Raspbian+XBMC and Raspbmc..? I can't seem to get a straight answer in #raspmbc
[3:58] <Opinie> mind if I just give a guess?
[3:58] <Mentos> all ears
[3:58] <Opinie> raspbmc is most likely an OS that is basically just XBMC
[3:59] <Opinie> raspbian is an OS to which you can install, among others, xbmc
[3:59] <Mentos> thats what I'm coming to find, what are the benefits of doing just a Raspbmc build
[4:00] <Mentos> i can't understand why you'd want to "chop your arms off" and just have Raspbmc
[4:00] <Opinie> is that all you want to do?
[4:00] <Opinie> me neither
[4:00] <Mentos> well i'd like to have a web browser and apparently you can't have that with Raspbmc
[4:00] <Opinie> I guess some people aren't really that interested in the Pi other than using it as a media center..
[4:01] <Mentos> so i guess their approach is to provide a distro that is easier to install and get up and running for XBMC
[4:01] <Opinie> mm, Midori isn't that awesome in raspbian though
[4:01] <Mentos> Whats Midori a web browser
[4:01] <Opinie> yeah
[4:01] <Opinie> a web browser
[4:01] <Opinie> it err
[4:01] <Opinie> renders most of the sites quite well..?
[4:01] <Mentos> and there aren't any other web browsers for Debian?
[4:02] <ParkerR_> Yes
[4:02] <Opinie> oh yeah there are
[4:02] <Opinie> sure
[4:02] <ParkerR_> But the Pi doesn;t handle X and a modern web browser well
[4:02] <Mentos> or you're saying that Rasbian can't handle rendering it
[4:02] <ParkerR_> Fast web rendering requires more CPU
[4:02] <Mentos> i see
[4:02] <Mentos> yea thats one of the biggest problems i had with Google Revue
[4:03] <Mentos> i got it because it seemed like an all in one but its web browser was awful
[4:03] <Opinie> Mentos: you'll want to listen to ParkeR_ instead of me...
[4:03] <Opinie> Mentos: web surf is really fast
[4:03] <Opinie> it's another browser
[4:03] <Opinie> it just doesn't always render quite everything as it should
[4:04] <Mentos> Well I had an idea I don't know if you could pull off with Rasbian
[4:04] <Mentos> what if you sat on your coach with a laptop
[4:04] <Mentos> would there be anyway to just send your screen to Raspbian
[4:05] <Opinie> the laptop's screen or the Pi's screen?
[4:05] <Mentos> so you do all of the heavy processing of the browser on your laptop but then just send essentially a stream to the Raspbian to process
[4:05] <Opinie> ah k
[4:05] <Opinie> I guess you could just VNC to your laptop from raspbian
[4:06] <Mentos> might work?
[4:06] <Opinie> I've only ever VNC'd to raspbian
[4:06] <Opinie> can't think of any reason why it shouldn't though
[4:07] <Mentos> well i think a better approach would be to literally stream your laptop screen to Raspbian as if it was a movie
[4:07] <Opinie> well that is exactly what VNC'ing is
[4:08] <Mentos> i feel like VNC'ing has more overhead though
[4:08] <Opinie> not sure what you mean
[4:08] <Mentos> hope this paste isn't too long
[4:09] <Mentos> In computing, Virtual Network Computing (VNC) is a graphical desktop sharing system that uses the RFB protocol (remote framebuffer) to remotely control another computer. It transmits the keyboard and mouse events from one computer to another, relaying the graphical screen updates back in the other direction, over a network.
[4:09] <Mentos> I'm not looking to control one computer with another
[4:09] <Mentos> i'm just looking to mirror my screen
[4:09] <Opinie> um
[4:10] <Opinie> I don't know of any other way to do it
[4:10] <Mentos> i guess what i'm articulating is something like WiDi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiDi
[4:12] <Opinie> right
[4:12] <Opinie> so use browser via something WiDi-like?
[4:13] <Mentos> yea
[4:13] <Opinie> y u no just uz VNC?
[4:14] <Mentos> that may work but you seemed unsure?
[4:15] <Opinie> ParkeR_, is there any reason why VNC'ing from raspbian to other computers shouldn't work?
[4:15] <Opinie> I do think it'd work
[4:17] <Opinie> even found a bunch of available VNC clients
[4:17] <Opinie> not too keen on testing it out myself tonight though
[4:18] <Mentos> whats one?
[4:18] <Opinie> err
[4:18] <Opinie> just "apt-cache search vmc client"
[4:18] <Opinie> apt-cache search vnc client
[4:18] <Opinie> I guess if I have to name any one
[4:19] <Opinie> gtkvncviewer could be a nice one
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[4:22] <Opinie> Mentos: what do you plan on doing with your pi?
[4:22] <Opinie> why is it important to be able to browse well?
[4:22] <Mentos> I'm making a HTPC
[4:23] <Opinie> ah k
[4:23] <Mentos> So I've got a projector in my living room and 3 room mates
[4:23] <Opinie> there are some web browsers available for XBMC as well
[4:23] <Opinie> they're pretty basic probably though
[4:23] <Mentos> we usually sit around watching tv/movies but we also have our laptops on our laps and we're always sharing links with each other
[4:23] <Opinie> k
[4:24] <Mentos> usually someone has a video and we all have to lean in to see what he's watching
[4:24] <Opinie> err
[4:24] <Opinie> you can add plugins etc to xbmc
[4:24] <Opinie> and then watch them from that
[4:24] <Mentos> how so?
[4:24] <Opinie> actually they're addons
[4:24] <Opinie> not plugins
[4:24] <Opinie> just as I said
[4:25] <Opinie> I'm actually currently streaming a docu from youtube on my pi
[4:25] <Mentos> docu?
[4:25] <Opinie> documentary
[4:25] <gnarface> how you play flash on pi?
[4:25] <Mentos> ah
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[4:26] <Opinie> gnarface: if you mean via browser
[4:26] <Opinie> I don't think you can, at least yet
[4:26] <Opinie> I once tried to do that with gnash
[4:26] <Opinie> but it didn't really work
[4:26] <Opinie> if you need to stream videos, I suggest you download them and then watch them or try streaming them via XBMC
[4:26] <Mentos> well i thought i might do some programming to make an ideal setup where each of my room mates has an app on their laptop that allows them to ask the Raspberry Pi for permission to take over the screen, in which case they could stream their laptop screen to the Pi and show us whatever it is they have on their screen
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[4:27] <Mentos> but definitely very amibitious
[4:27] <Opinie> Mentos: you don't need to do any programming to do that
[4:28] <Opinie> I should think VNC would accomplish the same thing
[4:28] <Opinie> just adjust the window size appropriately
[4:28] <Mentos> well VNC would be from the Raspberry Pi -> Laptop ?
[4:28] <Opinie> yeah
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[4:29] <Mentos> well i'd like to go the other direction
[4:29] <Mentos> Laptop -> Raspberry Pi
[4:29] <Opinie> sure
[4:29] <Mentos> but if you were to do this with VNC
[4:30] <Opinie> yeah that wouldn't exactly work
[4:30] <Mentos> i don't think either direction works
[4:30] <Mentos> for what i'm wishing for
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[4:30] <Opinie> VNC'ing to raspberry pi works well
[4:30] <Opinie> I don't see why VNC'ing from raspberry pi shouldn't work better
[4:30] <Mentos> yea but you said web browsing doesn't work as well
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[4:31] <Opinie> Mentos: yeah, but you'd be browsing on the laptop
[4:31] <Opinie> wouldn't you
[4:31] <Opinie> I mean Midori is alright, but some websites can be pretty terrible
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[4:31] <Mentos> nah if the connection is from the laptop->Raspberry Pi, the laptop is only sending key strokes
[4:31] <Mentos> and the Pi is doing all of the processing
[4:32] <Opinie> raspberry pi --> laptop
[4:32] <Mentos> well that doesn't help me because I'm trying to get whats on the laptop to the raspberry pi
[4:32] <Opinie> I guess it'd be nicer to just be able to use the laptop
[4:32] <Opinie> k
[4:32] <Opinie> never mind
[4:32] <Opinie> I suppose I'm too tired to think of anything
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[4:33] <Mentos> nah i appreciate the consideration
[4:33] <Mentos> I'm a newb at this, just showed up today
[4:33] <Opinie> ay
[4:34] <Opinie> by the way, backing whenever you've accomplished something important is a very good idae
[4:34] <Opinie> *idea
[4:34] <Opinie> one I didn't follow when I got my pi
[4:34] <Mentos> how do you back up/=?
[4:35] <Opinie> I dd my backups
[4:35] <Mentos> dd?
[4:35] <Opinie> like the reverse process of putting the disk image on the SD card
[4:35] <Opinie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix)
[4:36] <Opinie> Mentos: actually, you can accomplish what you want with VNC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTJ5F88MlIQ
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[4:40] <Opinie> Mentos: isn't that pretty much correct?
[4:40] <Mentos> yea nice find! I'm reading through it now to see how he accomplishes it
[4:40] <Opinie> ;-)
[4:41] <Opinie> google's your friend
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[5:19] <ParkerR_> .......
[5:20] <ParkerR_> I went to install lighttpd. Installed fine but when it went to start it during install it said something was already using port 80. Checked and for some reason apache was running. This is a net install. I have no clue how apache got on here
[5:21] <Sv> sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 stop ; sudo apt-get remove apache2
[5:21] <Sv> then try starting lighttpd again
[5:23] <ParkerR_> Yeah
[5:23] <ParkerR_> Currently doing that
[5:23] <ParkerR_> Purged apache2
[5:24] <ParkerR_> Sweet
[5:24] <ParkerR_> Up and running
[5:25] <ParkerR_> Sv, Also a shorter way on newer systems is just sudo service apache2 stop
[5:25] <Sv> oh, right
[5:25] <Sv> i'm just too used to the old way
[5:25] <ParkerR_> Yeah
[5:25] <ParkerR_> I usually tab complete the directory out of habit then remember service
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[5:54] <ParkerR_> Sv, http://minecrafted.mooo.com/ The fruit of lighttpd
[5:54] <ParkerR_> *fruits
[5:56] <ParkerR_> Might be a little slow :P
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[11:27] <Mathias> i'm having some problems compiling xbmc, shall i paste the log? :)
[11:28] <Essobi> pastebin is somewhere
[11:28] <Essobi> *it
[11:29] <Mathias> btw, i followed http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianXBMC
[11:37] <Essobi> pastebin your logs somewhere.. post them, someone might look at them.
[11:38] <Mathias> i'll do that, i'm just starting the compiling :P
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[11:53] <Mathias> http://pastebin.com/jsEEFdGL
[11:53] <Mathias> there
[11:53] <Mathias> took some time finding a way to pastebin it :P
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[12:19] <Mathias> nvm, i'll try openelec :P
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[12:42] <Davespice> Mathias: I have found xbian to also be quite reliable
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[14:22] <Mathias> openelec works :)
[14:23] <kenny> Mathias: if you're looking for xbmc packages for raspbian, I'm using: http://michael.gorven.za.net/raspberrypi/xbmc
[14:24] <kenny> The post doesn't say it, but there's a beta2 package in the repo
[14:24] <Mathias> damn, i could have just installed that then
[14:24] <Mathias> maybe i'll try that tomorrow :P
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[14:25] <kenny> :) yeah. I'm waiting for write access to the wiki to add a link. I tried all the compile instructions too before I gave up
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[15:31] <odo2063> Hi
[15:31] <odo2063> i set up motion on a raspberrypi with 2 webcams. the problem is there are lines form the pictures of one camera on the picture of the other cam, like interferences, and that triggers the motiondetection
[15:32] <Mogwai> odo2063: Sounds like you need a 50 or 60Hz flicker filter
[15:33] <Kryczek> odo2063: how are the webcams connected? USB?
[15:33] <odo2063> usb yes
[15:34] <Kryczek> wow I never heard of something like that
[15:34] <odo2063> mogwai and how?
[15:36] <odo2063> and a usb hub(tested two diffrent) because it saves to a NAS
[15:36] <Mogwai> odo2063: I'm not sure on the details but usually webcams have like a driver parameter to turn a flicker filter on and off
[15:37] <Mogwai> odo2063: Does it go away if you turn of all the monitors in the room and/or lights? :)
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[15:38] <odo2063> when i turn off the lights i see nothing ;-)
[15:39] <Kryczek> problem solved! :p
[15:39] <Mogwai> Haha, well try a flashlight or candlelight or something then
[15:45] <odo2063> i do not think that this is the problem
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[15:47] <Mogwai> Alright, well with that ruled out, you can be pretty sure it's USB bus interference then .. not sure how to troubleshoot tho
[15:49] <odo2063> example: http://pichost.de/image/9Qf
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[16:09] <Mogwai> odo2063: Interesting .. are the "interference strips" filled with image data from a previous frame or the other camera? :)
[16:09] <odo2063> other cam
[16:09] <Mogwai> Haha, that's freaky
[16:10] <odo2063> indeed, it is :-P
[16:10] <odo2063> but its not productive :-)
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[16:10] <Mogwai> And the same software is capturing from both cameras I take it?
[16:10] <odo2063> exactly in 2 diffrent threads
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[16:11] <Mogwai> Hmm, maybe just a bug in the capturing software then? Are there alternatives?
[16:11] <odo2063> if they dont name it incorrectly ;-)
[16:11] <odo2063> no alternatives
[16:11] <odo2063> motion is the only thing left on my list
[16:13] <odo2063> in #motion i was asked about the cpuload but its "only" 70~80%
[16:13] <Mogwai> Hmm, maybe try to add some artificial separation .. what if you have two binaries .. will it still work as intended?
[16:13] <odo2063> i think so
[16:14] <Mogwai> so /usr/bin/motion1 and /usr/bin/motion2 then :)
[16:14] <odo2063> i thought more "motion -c conf1 && motion -c conf2" ;-)
[16:14] <odo2063> but the idea is good
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[16:28] <odo2063> looks good
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[16:36] <Mogwai> odo2063: Sweet :) That should give the devs i #motion something fun to debug
[16:37] <odo2063> hell there is no dev online(or talking to me) and i dont to register for a bugreport
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[16:51] <odo2063> ok, so i registered for that bugreport
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[17:19] <odo2063> ok, bya, and THANKS a lot Mogwai
[17:19] <Mogwai> np
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[18:43] <shikamaru> hi, what do you guys use for a storage device ?
[18:43] <shikamaru> I’m not sure what’s more efficient
[18:44] <shikamaru> usb keys must be the most efficient regarding needed power but they are more expensive than many hard drives if you want a decent storage space
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[18:45] <Mogwai> shikamaru: I would suggest either a big SD card or a powered USB hard drive
[18:46] <Mogwai> In terms of performance, USB sticks are probably the worst .. at least that's my theory
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[18:46] * yofel_ is now known as yofel
[18:46] <shikamaru> yeah, but I’m not looking for performance anyway
[18:47] <shikamaru> the problem with usb keys is that the ratio size/price is not interesting at all
[18:47] <shikamaru> a ssd would probably cost the same for the same capacity
[18:47] <Mogwai> That sounds highly unlikely
[18:50] <Mogwai> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313303 - $35
[18:50] * themill (~stuart@unaffiliated/themill) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:50] <shikamaru> well, http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00135007.html and http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00134086.html
[18:50] <shikamaru> exact same price, exact same capacity
[18:51] <shikamaru> and these are among the cheapest ssd drives and usb keys for that capacity
[18:51] <Mogwai> Yes, the usb key is overpriced
[18:52] <shikamaru> no, it’s one of the cheapest :/
[18:52] <shikamaru> if you look at this page http://www.ldlc.com/informatique/peripherique-pc/cle-usb/c4651/+fi62-l64h64.html
[18:52] <shikamaru> 90 € for a 64 GB usb keys sounds insane
[18:53] <shikamaru> I mean, you can get a 2 To HDD for that price
[18:54] <shikamaru> so yeah I’m not so sure a usb key would be the good compromise for low power consumption/storage space/price
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[19:09] <gnarface> it is if you only need 8GB
[19:09] <gnarface> below 8GB USB keys are the cheapest per-gig storage on the planet currently
[19:09] <gnarface> but much above twice that you're gonna get raked over the coals on rarity pricing
[19:10] <gnarface> but don't forget that the cheaper they are the hotter they tend to get when you're writing to them at full-tilt
[19:10] <gnarface> so consider overheating concerns if you are somewhere its hot right now
[19:11] <shikamaru> well, it’s so cold my car didn’t start this morning
[19:11] <gnarface> well maybe that's a feature you want to actually select for then :)
[19:12] <shikamaru> ^^
[19:12] <shikamaru> anyway, the thing is it will not be stressed a lot I guess
[19:13] <shikamaru> basically I just need it to store my mails
[19:14] <shikamaru> for the rest the pi will wake my NFS on lan, so it will only be powered on when it is actually needed
[19:15] <ParkerR_> MUmmm
[19:15] <shikamaru> may be a 8 GB usb key would do the job after all
[19:16] <ParkerR_> The page that tells how to install XBMC on Raspbian has --disable-alsa AND --disable-pulse in the ./configure line
[19:16] <ParkerR_> So how the heck is it going to play audio?
[19:16] * shikamaru fears it would use OSS…
[19:16] <ParkerR_> http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianXBMC
[19:17] <ParkerR_> Alsa works just fine for me in Raspbian
[19:19] <shikamaru> Mogwai: gnarface thanks for your answers, I think I’ll use a usb key after all
[19:19] <shikamaru> if I ever get to fill it I would archive old mails, and set quotas with dovecot
[19:20] * twolife is now known as twolife`
[19:20] * gnarface has found that iceweasel begins to choke on well less than 8GB of mail
[19:21] <gnarface> (even on my 3.6GHZ phenom II x 4)
[19:22] <gnarface> sorry icedove i meant
[19:22] <gnarface> icedove/thunderbird (for you non-debian users)
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[19:25] <ada_> anyone have experience build deb packages?
[19:28] * shikamaru uses mutt and notmuch
[19:30] <gnarface> ada_: i've built a few with dpkg-buildpackage and with checkinstall... i'm hardly a pro though at the debian FHS, why?
[19:31] <ada_> id like to have some kind of automated deployment for a bunch of raspis i have
[19:31] <plugwash> well we did build many thousands of them so you could say we do ;)
[19:32] <plugwash> admittedly that was from existing source packages though
[19:32] <ada_> figure I'd set up a repo and deploy a deb package to it, and have my devices update via cron
[19:32] <ada_> every day
[19:33] <ada_> also, having a way to reach these things remotely if they end up behind a NAT would be excellent
[19:34] * plugwash uses vtund with linux bridging to build virtual networks
[19:37] <gnarface> i just use openvpn
[19:38] <gnarface> i use reprepro for the repo
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[19:38] <shikamaru> mmh it’s a bit unrelated to the problem of building deb packages, but you should not rely on cron for automated deployments
[19:38] <shikamaru> take a look at puppet or chef
[19:38] <gnarface> i kinda feel like the problem of building deb packages is also unrelated to the problem of automated deployments
[19:39] <gnarface> and i'd see your puppet/chef and raise it with "use preseeding, its a native feature built by and for people who DO understand debian, not ones who DON't"
[19:39] <maswan> Er00: did you manage to get hold of plugwash or someone that could answer if/how you can get a non-debian package into raspbian?
[19:39] <shikamaru> preseeding ?
[19:40] <gnarface> chef with ruby is like the blind leading the blind riding piggyback on the blind with blind guides, blind dogs, blind donkeys, blind horses, and a blind old witchdoctor leading them all who only talks in riddles
[19:40] <maswan> for fully automated installs, we use FAI at work and are pretty happy with it. it takes a bit in setup to get it going the first time though.
[19:41] <shikamaru> hahaha
[19:41] <gnarface> shikamaru: preseeding is a native feature of the debian installer. mind you i'm only speculating that it will work with the raspbian one too
[19:41] <gnarface> shikamaru: there will probably be caveats but if your deployment doesn't include a lot of debconf customizations it should also be easy
[19:42] <shikamaru> interesting
[19:42] <gnarface> in the mean time chef requires bleeding-edge ruby builds...
[19:42] <shikamaru> thanks for the hint I wasn’t aware of this
[19:42] <shikamaru> not puppet
[19:43] <shikamaru> at mageia we use it a lot, but I’m not a sysadmin so can’t tell much about its caveats
[19:44] <gnarface> shikamaru: no problem. i've found its largely a religious debate. with various levels of effort they'll all work. it just depends on where you want to bucket your expertise. i try to aim for prioritizing distro-native components whenever possible, as a general rule, myself.
[19:44] <shikamaru> I don’t, I favor interoperability
[19:45] <shikamaru> I have both debians and mageias at home and even packaging choices sometimes make it hard to replicate configurations between them :)
[19:45] * hrebicek__ is now known as hrebicek__wfh
[19:45] <gnarface> eh, to each their own. it also depends on your task of course. interoperability of *installers* is a meaningless expenditure if your system is running entirely debian distros in the first place...
[19:45] <ada_> i have no attachment to deb or any other package format
[19:46] * hrebicek__wfh is now known as hrebicek_wfh
[19:46] <ada_> but that was my first attempt at making this work
[19:46] <gnarface> basically over the long timeline everyone basically graduates to debian or burns out and buys a mac
[19:46] <ada_> if there's a 'better' way, im all ears. i use puppet to manage our servers
[19:47] <shikamaru> ada_: nice :)
[19:47] <gnarface> i think if you need configuration interoperability between different distros puppet/chef/bcfg2 are popular
[19:47] <ada_> debian only right now
[19:47] <ada_> well, for this part of my project at least
[19:48] <gnarface> if you're creative with bash scripts you can bypass it all with some post-installation ssh |tar magic
[19:48] <ada_> the previosu platform for this was buglabs bug hardware, and their opkg format made things pretty easy
[19:48] <ada_> i saw it was based on dpkg, so figured the crossover might be pretty easy
[19:49] <gnarface> apt should be pretty similar everywhere, its what is in the packages that is different
[19:49] <gnarface> people underestimate how different they can be
[19:49] <gnarface> overlook versioning and configuration defaults
[19:49] <ada_> mm, it's quite a bit more complicated
[19:50] <ada_> and guides online aren't very clear
[19:50] <gnarface> no no its really simple
[19:50] <gnarface> the guides just make it sound harder cause the *guides* are more complicated
[19:51] <gnarface> they suck frankly
[19:51] <ada_> quite
[19:52] <gnarface> all you really need to know is dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
[19:52] <paultag> debs are easy
[19:52] <ada_> whats the folder structure supposed to look like. can't tell if my files need to be tarred or not
[19:53] <paultag> ada_: let me give you a basic example.
[19:53] <paultag> ada_: git clone git://anonscm.debian.org/collab-maint/fbautostart.git
[19:53] <paultag> ada_: look around debian/, and folks are here to help in #debian-mentors on oftc
[19:54] <paultag> BRB.
[19:55] <ada_> my package has no source to be built
[19:55] <ada_> just a collection of python libs and a few scripts
[19:55] <paultag> then it does have source that needs to be built
[19:55] <paultag> ada_: if you'd like something pythonic, let me get you one of those.
[19:56] <paultag> ada_: try svn://svn.debian.org/python-modules/packages/python-sunlight/trunk/ out for size
[19:56] <paultag> a bit more complex, still simple.
[19:56] <paultag> just makefiles.
[19:56] <paultag> Alright, I'm out for real. Good luck.
[19:56] <ada_> ugh makefiles
[19:56] <ada_> alright thanks
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[20:34] <maswan> plugwash: came up in another channel, how complete is raspbian compared to debian's armel/armhf? any noticable gap?
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[21:30] <plugwash> pretty complete, last I looked we actually had more binary packages than debian armel/armhf
[21:30] <plugwash> though part of that is me being far less deletionist than the debian ftpmasters
[21:31] <plugwash> compared to debian armel the biggest issue I can think of is mono (of course that affects debian armhf too)
[21:32] * maswan nods
[21:32] <plugwash> (mono is present in raspbian but doesn't work properly)
[21:34] <maswan> someone was whining on how rpi doesn't have proper apt sources where you can just install packages "because nothing supports armv6". I added some actual numbers from debian (armel/armhf) and that shut them up good enough.
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[21:47] <- *Nolaan* hi
[21:47] <Nolaan> hi
[21:47] <Nolaan> do you know where i can get the ffmpeg package?
[21:48] <Nolaan> is it distribuable?
[21:52] <msch> plugwash: i'd love to have ruby 1.9.3, but i don't think it's in debian upstream :/
[22:10] <plugwash> hmm
[22:10] <plugwash> according to packages.qa.debian.org the package name is ruby1.9.1 but the version is
[22:11] * plugwash isn't sure what that is supposed to mean in the ruby world
[22:12] <plugwash> either way the situaiton in raspbian seems the same as in debian
[22:13] <plugwash> Nolaan, ffpmpeg has been replaced in debian by libav
[22:13] <plugwash> I dunno offhand what features debian does/does not enable though
[22:33] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[22:35] <Nolaan> thank you plugwash I can't see how i can use it to grab frames from my webcam?
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[22:53] <Mogwai> Strange .. the list of downloads seems to have disappeared from github
[22:54] <Mogwai> *shrugs* oh well .. direct links still works tho
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[23:30] <Nolaan> hi
[23:30] <Nolaan> I can't download libav-tools for raspbian, how come?
[23:35] <plugwash> what error are you getting?
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[23:44] <Nolaan> E: Package 'libav-tools' has no installation candidate
[23:44] <Nolaan> and i can see it in the repo
[23:44] <Nolaan> here : http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/liba/libav/
[23:46] <plugwash> have you run apt-get update recently?
[23:46] <Nolaan> no
[23:46] <Nolaan> should I?
[23:46] <Nolaan> i've just downloaded the sd image
[23:47] <plugwash> in general you should run apt-get update before you start doing other things with apt so you have the latest package lists
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[23:50] <ParkerR_> :/
[23:50] <ParkerR_> /usr/include/interface/vmcs_host/vcgencmd.h:31:27: fatal error: vchost_config.h: No such file or directory
[23:50] <ParkerR_> compilation terminated.
[23:51] <ParkerR_> And all I wanted was XBMC
[23:53] * blkhawk is now known as blkaway
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