Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:02] <gnarface> indeed
[0:03] <gnarface> i'm about to block em all honestly
[0:03] <gnarface> all i get from them is spam
[0:05] <gnarface> and the ukraine
[0:05] <gnarface> spammers, the lot of em
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[0:19] <srg> hrm
[0:19] <srg> It seems my USB hub died.
[0:19] <srg> Or something on my rpi. but I think it's the hub.
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[0:19] <srg> pretty sure I didn't do anything to overcurrent it
[0:20] <srg> I only connected my mini-fridge's compresser to it via usb....
[0:20] * ukscone (~Russell@cpe-24-193-113-179.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #raspbian
[0:21] <srg> (ok, last line was a joke, but the rest was true)
[0:23] <themill> plugwash: are you using raphael's http.d.n code for the redirector, btw?
[0:25] <plugwash> as I said above no
[0:25] <plugwash> "we also ended up using different software for the mirror redirection system to better acommodate sloppilly run mirrors"
[0:25] <themill> well debian doesn't have a mirror redirection system at all, so that doesn't actually help, hence me asking
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[0:26] <plugwash> hmm, I guess http.debian.net isn't actually official.....
[0:26] <themill> the most it has is ftp.$cc.d.o round robins. http.d.n is a rather different beast and it would be a pity to have two efforts reinventing that wheel
[0:27] <themill> esp since http.d.n is specifically designed to cope with sloppily run mirrors
[0:27] <plugwash> I looked into using the http.debian.net code but there were a few design issues that didn't fit well with the mirroring situation we had
[0:28] <themill> ok
[0:29] <plugwash> Firstly the http.debian.net code assumes well-run mirrors that use the debian scripts to trace mirroring progress etc rather than mirrors using dumb rsync
[0:29] <themill> no, http.d.n blacklists mirrors using rsync
[0:29] * Armand (~martin@cpc17-haye16-2-0-cust427.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:29] * gnarface didn't mean to start a fight
[0:29] <plugwash> ok so it handles badly run mirrors by refusing to use them?
[0:30] <plugwash> which from our perspective isn't much help
[0:30] <themill> how are you getting around rsync leaving mirrors in an inconsistent state?
[0:31] <plugwash> We use mirrorbrain which works on a rather lower level (by checking which files a mirror actually has). Downside is because of the way mirrorbrain works we can't redirect dists access, only pool access
[0:33] <themill> so you end up HEADing every package on every mirror? ouch.
[0:34] <plugwash> iirc mirrorbrain gets it's list of files by looking at directory listings
[0:35] <plugwash> still scanning mirrors over http is SLOW and we strongly encourage mirrors to offer rsync for faster scanning
[0:35] <plugwash> also the way we use mirrorbrain relies on the fact that files are removed from the mirror redirection server before they are removed from any of the mirrors it redirects to (which is not a problem for us because the mirror redirection system is running off the same copy of the archive that mirrors mirror from)
[0:35] <themill> yeah 19k dir listings is still a crazy amount of parsing to do
[0:36] <plugwash> iirc with rsync we can scan a mirror in a couple of minuites, with http and high network latency (e.g. to australia) it can take hours
[0:36] <themill> btw any reason not to just tell your mirror network to use ftpsync instead of giving them instructions to use rsync which is known to cause these problems?
[0:37] <plugwash> I didn't write the instructions, we were kind of worried about making things too complex for the mirror operators and therefore discouraging mirrors
[0:38] <plugwash> also we have stuff outside /raspbian that currently most mirrors carry, i'm worried that mirrors will screw things like that up in a mirroring method transition
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[0:38] <plugwash> there was also another problem that put me off the http.debian.net code, apparently it disables mirrors during update
[0:39] <plugwash> that is fine if like debian you have lots of mirrors but we didn't at the time
[0:40] <plugwash> (we have more now but still some countries only have one local mirror so disabling it during updates would have meant pushing those users traffic across international links while it updated)
[0:43] <plugwash> gnarface, it's not a fight, i'm just explaining why I made the choices I did
[0:45] <plugwash> btw raphael was very helpful in explaining how the http.debian.net code worked and did not seem offended when I decided that mirrorbrain was a better fit for raspbian's needs
[0:46] <themill> sure -- it's sometimes useful to try out different things to see what actually works best
[0:46] * themill would put dns round robins in the "known to not work well" category
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[0:47] <plugwash> honestly we could live without the mirror redirection system altogether
[0:48] <plugwash> repo traffic never rose anywhere near as high as I feared it would
[0:48] <themill> I'm pushing both laptops and servers over to http.d.n these days -- laptops → travelling and servers don't end up with a stale server.
[0:49] <themill> So transparent redirection has merits even when it's not needed so much from the infrastructure perspective.
[0:50] <plugwash> (mind you even though traffic never rose as high as I feared I would i'm still very glad we have donated hosting)
[0:51] <srg> Is the RPI fast enough to burn a CD using a external CD burner?
[0:51] * plugwash wonders sometimes if the bandwidth benefit we get from redirecting users to mirrors is actually greater than the bandwidth taken up by people making mirrors
[0:52] <plugwash> srg, my gut feeling is yes but the only way to find out for sure is probablly to try it
[0:52] <srg> plugwash: heh, of course
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[1:14] <Hexxeh> plugwash: still about?
[1:14] <plugwash> hi
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[1:15] <nickgaw> Hi, What file in the raspbian installer contains the installation files as from looking in the zip file it just looks like the boot files are in the zip file no installer image?
[1:15] <Hexxeh> ah, good. did Hannah manage to get in touch with you? i forwarded her your way, trying to get a new package into the raspbian repos (can't say much more in channel)
[1:16] <nickgaw> Basically, I am trying to find an installer of raspbian freshly installed with no! X windows installed not one that X has been stript out of the initial install afterwords does such an image exist?
[1:17] <plugwash> <nickgaw> Hi, What file in the raspbian installer contains the installation files as from looking in the zip file it just looks like the boot files are in the zip file no installer image? -- iirc that installer is setup to install over the network
[1:18] <plugwash> nickgaw> Basically, I am trying to find an installer of raspbian freshly installed with no! X windows installed not one that X has been stript out of the initial install afterwords does such an image exist? -- iirc the hexxeh r2 image is like that but that is a very old image now
[1:18] <Hexxeh> nickgaw: rolling your own isn't too difficult, i believe there are instructions on the wiki
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[1:19] <Hexxeh> you can even do it from the raspbian image itself
[1:20] <nickgaw> yes but is the entire installer pulled from the internet how does the raspbian installer boot as you have to tell it the mirrors to get things from so my question is where does it store the information as no initial ramdisk image exists just a kernel.img and the normal firmware files?
[1:21] <Hexxeh> i've not looked, but you can stash a ramdisk in the kernel.img
[1:21] <Hexxeh> it's possible it's doing that
[1:21] <nickgaw> from reading the page it has X but it does not start on boot. I am trying to find a raspbian image that never had X installed in the first place.
[1:23] <nickgaw> I am looking for an image that is just like the normal raspbian image but no X why don't they make two?
[1:24] <plugwash> if you want that then your best bet is probablly to grab friggle's "spindle" scripts from github and adapt them
[1:24] <Hexxeh> alternatively you could grab the hexxeh r2 image and apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[1:24] <Hexxeh> and then sudo rpi-update
[1:25] <Hexxeh> probably won't boot on a 512MB Pi though, i think the fw in the image is too old
[1:25] * blkhawk is now known as blkaway
[1:25] <plugwash> hmm I thought the old firmware would boot on a 512MB Pi it just wouldn't use the extra ram
[1:25] <plugwash> I could be wrong though
[1:26] <Hexxeh> me too, but i've heard reports of people having issues
[1:26] <Hexxeh> could be a case of pebcak, i've not verified the reports
[1:26] <plugwash> also early firmwares had SD card compatibility issues
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[1:28] <nickgaw> really having the ssh or network console in the installer would not be a bad thing to include if a default password was given in the README file so users could use the raspbian installer and ssh into it to complete the install with no keyboard and monitor connected. Where can I post this suggestion?
[1:30] <Hexxeh> you could make it yourself and share it with others?
[1:30] <nickgaw> where can I get the sources to the raspbian installer?
[1:30] <nickgaw> who is the person who built the raspbian installer?
[1:31] <Hexxeh> i'm not sure, but you shouldn't need sources to do what you're doing: http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianInstaller
[1:31] <plugwash> I don't recall who built it but iirc it was hacked together rather than built properly from sources
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[1:34] <nickgaw> who uploads stuff to the raspbian site?
[1:34] <Hexxeh> it's a wiki, so anyone does if they have an account i guess
[1:35] <nickgaw> and are there ways to email a certain user on the wiki if I should wish to contact them?
[1:35] <Hexxeh> not if they haven't listed their email
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[1:37] <nickgaw> I can't find any user information on the raspbian installer page. Is that page part of the wiki?
[1:38] <zq> anyone have experience using the GPIO on the pi or interfacing it with an arduino or something?
[1:38] <zq> for sensor data and output to relays?
[1:39] <plugwash> umm the wiki page links to a forum thread
[1:39] <plugwash> which seems to indicate it is the forum user jerry.tk who is behind it
[1:45] <nickgaw> /quit
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[1:49] <nickgaw> if I register on the wiki can I later delete my user account should I wish?
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[1:52] <plugwash> I don't think so
[1:53] <plugwash> you don't have to use your real name though....
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[1:53] <nickgaw> I don't care about that part of it I was mainly asking as I don't like to signup for lots of things and never use them.
[1:54] <nickgaw> if I signup will I get a spot on the wiki like plugwash has?
[1:56] <plugwash> if you are talking about the raspbian website then it links users usernames to a page with the same name
[1:56] <plugwash> whether that page actually exists varies ;)
[1:57] <nickgaw> no like what I mean is the way this channel's bot is setup. plugwash.raspbian.org
[1:58] <plugwash> no you won't get that, that hostname is unrelated to the wiki
[1:58] <nickgaw> what type of bot is that?
[1:59] <plugwash> http://www.jibble.org/logbot/
[2:01] <plugwash> don't really know a whole lot about it (I realised this channel needed a new logbot and set one up using the same program they use in #raspberrypi )
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[2:13] <tinti> have anyone build raspbian 3.2.27+?
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[2:18] <nickgaw> how quick are the logs updated?
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[2:32] <plugwash> test
[2:32] <plugwash> afaict it's damn near realtime
[2:35] <nickgaw> if I were to use the process for debootstrap producing a raspbian system could I then copy those files to the sd card?
[2:36] <plugwash> sure, you will have to setup a kernel and firmware on the fat partition though if you want it to be actually bootable
[2:37] <nickgaw> what I mean is if I replace the linux partition with my own setup and leave the boot partition alone will it work?
[2:37] <plugwash> should do
[2:38] <plugwash> though you probablly want to copy the kernel modules across or you will find yourself with very limited hardware support
[2:41] <nickgaw> where are those kept?
[2:44] <plugwash> /lib/modules
[2:45] <nickgaw> should I first remove everything on the partition first or will debootstrap do this for me?
[2:47] <plugwash> I don't think debootstrap will remove anything so you should clean it out first to avoid creating a horrible mess
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[2:49] <nickgaw> how can I make sure I have the latest raspberrypi firmware?
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[17:42] * Guile (512d3469@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.45.52.105) has joined #raspbian
[17:42] <Guile> Hi al,
[17:43] <Guile> Four month ago I bought a raspberry. Yesterday I receibed it and I installed Raspbian.
[17:43] <cerjam> and now you're very unhappy for it doesnt do what you want?
[17:43] <Guile> My idea was to use it as a mediacenter, but..
[17:44] <Guile> I havent the enough power for playing a 320x200 avi file.
[17:44] <cerjam> Guile, what video player
[17:44] <cerjam> are you using.
[17:44] * cerjam giggles
[17:44] * cerjam waits for VLC
[17:44] <Guile> I have pulled it to the garbaje (of course) but I need to ask you...
[17:45] * monkeycoder (~monkeycod@37.17.114.167) has joined #raspbian
[17:45] <Guile> Does anybody realy reproduce an avi file with this crap? I mean, viewing ARM V6 cortex expecs it is impossible.
[17:45] * zyga_ (~zyga@95.62.145.82) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:45] <Guile> this crap=raspberry pi
[17:46] <cerjam> Guile, what VIDEO PLAYER
[17:46] <cerjam> are you using.
[17:46] <cerjam> and what codec of video
[17:46] <Guile> raspbian is a very good OS, like any debian based :)
[17:46] * jbaanus (~jbaanus@252.201.50.195.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #raspbian
[17:46] <Guile> VLC, mplayer, mplayer2, I don't know, several.
[17:46] <cerjam> okay the reaosn theyre SUCKING
[17:46] <cerjam> no gpu support
[17:46] <cerjam> open up ssh
[17:46] <Guile> I was 2 days working on it.
[17:46] <cerjam> omxplayer -o hdmi videofile.avi
[17:47] <Guile> No, I have droped it to the litter.
[17:47] * cerjam sigh
[17:47] <Guile> I have no more raspberry-pi!
[17:47] <cerjam> have it your way
[17:47] <Guile> But I have the doubt about if it realy works or it a kind of cheat!
[17:48] <cerjam> Guile, mines been on for 3 weeks straight
[17:49] <cerjam> with 480p two and a half men/720p true blood/1080p randommovies
[17:49] <cerjam> playing
[17:49] <cerjam> it works fantasticly
[17:49] * WilW0rm (5ad8d08d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.216.208.141) has joined #raspbian
[17:49] <Guile> Ok, thanks cerjam!
[17:49] * monkeycoder (~monkeycod@37.17.114.167) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:50] <WilW0rm> Is plugwash about ?
[17:52] * dmmedia (~frolode@fw-hki.ixonos.com) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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[19:18] <nickgaw> Hi, When boot strapping the raspbian system there is a linux-image package for the raspberrypi but it makes a /boot/vmlinuz file which of course I don't want and I can't find the raspi-config stuff packaged or the cpu frequency stuff anywhere where should I look?
[19:18] * plugwash (~plugwash@2001:5c0:1400:a::8af) has joined #raspbian
[19:19] <nickgaw> Hi, When boot strapping the raspbian system there is a linux-image package for the raspberrypi but it makes a /boot/vmlinuz file which of course I don't want and I can't find the raspi-config stuff packaged or the cpu frequency stuff anywhere where should I look? I am trying to make the same install as the normal raspbian images but with no X windows and I can't find any documentation on doing this.
[19:20] <plugwash> don't use the linux-image package in the raspbian repo, it's horriblly outdated and unstable
[19:20] <Kryczek> what do you mean you don't want /boot/vmlinuz?
[19:20] <plugwash> the foundation's kernel is in their firmware package
[19:21] <nickgaw> so uninstall it? no as the raspberrypi uses kernel.img.
[19:21] <ParkerR_> https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update/
[19:21] * raspberry_guy (b2cb82a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.203.130.160) has joined #raspbian
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[19:27] * raspberry_guy (b2cb82a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.203.130.160) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[19:29] <nickgaw> with no cpu stuff installed is it safe to boot my raspberrypi with the over clocked 1 GHZ that raspi-config did?
[19:29] * luigy (~luigy@nat-alex-runet-out-7.rutgers.edu) has joined #raspbian
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[19:51] * luigy (~luigy@nat-alex-runet-out-7.rutgers.edu) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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[20:06] * nickgaw (~nick@70-139-55-30.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspbian
[20:07] <nickgaw> With out the cpu frequency stuff will my over clocked raspberrypi to 1 GHZ from my raspi-config void the warenty?
[20:11] <PhotoJim> if you're not using the official way of overclocking (which will slow the Pi down if it overheats), and your Pi dies from overheating, I expect yes, your warranty would be void.
[20:12] * ParkerR_ (ParkerR@unaffiliated/parkerr) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:13] <nickgaw> it was setup by raspi-config before I reinstalled but the cpu frequency packages I can't find for installing on my raspberrypi. I am talking about the warenty bit in the chip that is talked about on the forums that is set if it over heats will that get tripped if I use the same kernel and modules as before?
[20:15] <PhotoJim> not sure. but if you're worried about it, don't overclock.
[20:15] <PhotoJim> then again it's a $35 device. easy enough to replace even without warranty.
[20:15] <nickgaw> true
[20:16] <PhotoJim> under Raspbian, if you use raspi-config to overclock, from what I understand, it's dynamic and will slow down if you have trouble.
[20:16] <PhotoJim> and if you don't exceed the limits it permits, I expect you'd be okay for warranty.
[20:16] <PhotoJim> but quite seriously, warranty on such a low-end device is fairly trivial. the cost of return shipping would be disproportionate to the benefit.
[20:16] <PhotoJim> (in many cases)
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[20:27] <nickgaw> do I need a /etc/fstab file on the sd card?
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[22:06] <surfn_> hi
[22:06] * spleeze (~spleeze@dhcp-memo-2-248-189.rowan.edu) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:07] <surfn_> I used dd to backup my Raspian SD card.
[22:08] <surfn_> I'm trying to write that .img to another card right now...
[22:08] * daveee123 (~daveee123@ip-209-203.oberlin.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[22:08] <surfn_> but its been going for 12 hours... and I can't see the progress
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[22:16] <TheBrayn> really shouldn't take that long
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[22:17] <TheBrayn> you could use strace to see if dd is still doing stuff
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[23:18] <directhex> surfn_, dd without a bs= value can often be crazy slow
[23:35] <Mogwai> plugwash: Got a package snafu - cec-client from the cec-utils package cannot be used because libcec1 doesn't create a symlink from libcec.so.1.0.6 to libcec.so .. what's the proper Raspbian procedure for these kinds of things?
[23:39] <plugwash> such symlinks are normally provided by the dev package and should only be needed at development time
[23:39] <plugwash> if an app is trying to use those symlinks at runtime then IMO it's the app that needs fixing
[23:40] <Mogwai> I see, so I have to go bark up the developer chain :)
[23:41] <plugwash> looks like it's already fixed upstream but the debian guys haven't got arround to backporting the fix yet
[23:43] <Mogwai> Yeah, libcec-dev creates the symlink .. oh well .. nm
[23:44] <Mogwai> Now I just have to figure out why it can't find a CEC adapter .. do I need to load any modules perhaps?
[23:44] * plugwash has no clue about cec
[23:45] <plugwash> just because the buildds I admin imported and built a package doesn't mean I have any clue how the package works ;)
[23:45] <Mogwai> Haha, no worries, I understand that :)
[23:45] <TheBrayn> is there a package for raspbian with a recent kernel with the rpi patches and iptable support?
[23:46] <TheBrayn> and is there a reason why the standard kernel does not have iptables support?
[23:46] * plugwash is pretty sure the raspberry pi foundation kernel (which is in their firmware package) does have iptables support.....
[23:49] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[23:51] <maswan> Mogwai: since most packages are just imported from debian, it might make sense to take a look at http://bugs.debian.org/cec-utils
[23:51] * Mogwai just realized that the libcec version is ancient and doesn't even support the Pi :)
[23:52] <TheBrayn> plugwash: http://codepad.org/QWdQMoVl
[23:53] <plugwash> where did you get your kernel from?
[23:53] <TheBrayn> from the image I'm using, uhm
[23:53] <TheBrayn> let me check which one I'm using
[23:55] <Nolaan> Hi
[23:55] <TheBrayn> http://www.linuxsystems.it/2012/06/raspbian-wheezy-armhf-raspberry-pi-minimal-image/ this one
[23:56] <Nolaan> anybody doing cross compilation with configure script?
[23:56] <TheBrayn> ok it's a custom kernel
[23:56] <Nolaan> I wanna know what syroot option standing for
[23:56] <Nolaan> thanks.
[23:57] <plugwash> TheBrayn, sounds like a very old image with a correspondingly old kernel
[23:58] <plugwash> you probablly want to look into upgrading that either by adding the foundations repo and installing their firmware/kernel package or using Hexxeh's rpi-update
[23:58] <plugwash> older foundation kernel's were pretty bare because the foundation guys who built them came from an embedded mindset rather than a general purpose device mindset
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[23:59] <TheBrayn> rpi-update crashed my system
[23:59] <TheBrayn> but I'll try and add the repo
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