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[1:00] <RJ45> hello people!
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[1:21] <RJ45> sure is dead in here...
[1:21] * vagrantc waves
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[1:21] <taza> You wouldn't want to talk to me right now anyway.
[1:21] * RJ45 does a tiny girlish wave
[1:22] <RJ45> taza: HELLO!, how are you?, 'sup, 'aight?, H E L L O O, u mad?, :P
[1:22] <taza> I'm actually not coping with a very severe disease.
[1:22] <RJ45> sucks :-/
[1:23] <taza> The physical kind, too.
[1:23] <RJ45> Liver?
[1:23] <taza> ... guessing organs is gonna take a while to hit the right one.
[1:23] <taza> People are here, but it's unlikely to get them to answer to just a "hello"
[1:24] <RJ45> you don't know what disease it is?
[1:24] <taza> I know what disease it is; I'm not telling you is the thing.
[1:24] <RJ45> err... okay?
[1:25] <taza> But anyway. You might have a bit of a non-reaction to social chatter - bringing up a topic or asking technical questions may go over better.
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[1:27] * zZz_Skelli is now known as Skelli
[1:27] <RJ45> okay, well, I've always wanted a Raspberry Pi ever since they first came out, but I'm pretty poor and have a lot of important stuff I still have-to pay out for (no debts or anything like that), so I was wondering if anyone here would care to donate?, I have a GoFundMe.com page of which I'm only linking to in PMs.
[1:27] <taza> Well, my initial guess was right.
[1:27] <taza> Would you kindly go somewhere else?
[1:28] <RJ45> ??? wtf?
[1:28] <taza> Do we have any ops present?
[1:28] <RJ45> taza: what's wrong with you?, I've done nothing wrong!
[1:29] <taza> You've done nothing wrong?
[1:29] <RJ45> as far as I can tell, no.
[1:29] <taza> Well, then your sense of proper conduct is very, very different than mine.
[1:30] <taza> Please leave.
[1:31] <RJ45> ...I guess, but saying that, I probably have better 'sense' than you anyway, well, based on what I've heard of you so-far.
[1:32] <taza> I am fairly certain that my understanding of social protocol is quite sufficient to understand straight-up begging on IRC is not a good trait to have.
[1:33] <RJ45> taza: you may have noticed that you are the only one here who appears to have a problem with me.
[1:33] <taza> That's because I'm the only one even bothering to respond to you.
[1:34] <RJ45> ...and I did not go "straight to begging", you suggested that I mention something "on topic", so I did, or at-least I think I did.
[1:35] <taza> Funny, quoting words I did not say, too.
[1:35] <RJ45> <taza> But anyway. You might have a bit of a non-reaction to social chatter - bringing up a topic or asking technical questions may go over better.
[1:35] <vagrantc> while it would be wearysome to see people constantly asking for hardware, i don't think it's an absolute violation of ettiquette
[1:35] <RJ45> taza: '"bring up a topic"-
[1:36] <RJ45> bringing*
[1:36] <RJ45> ..well, you get the point
[1:36] <taza> I am now placing you on ignore.
[1:36] <RJ45> SUPER!
[1:36] <vagrantc> that seems reasonable
[1:36] <RJ45> there.. problem solved!
[1:36] <vagrantc> if someone started spamming the channel, that'd be one thing...
[1:36] <RJ45> :-)
[1:37] <RJ45> oh yeah, spam sucks.
[1:37] <RJ45> once a day MAX is enough.
[1:37] <RJ45> and I don't plan on asking again anyways
[1:37] <RJ45> at-least not here.
[1:37] <vagrantc> RJ45: if you had a specific project you were hoping to accomplish with the rpi, that might be more interesting to people as well
[1:38] <taza> vagrantc: I find any begging for money without contributing significantly to a project an absolute violation of etiquette.
[1:38] <RJ45> vagrantc: good point...
[1:40] <vagrantc> taza: sure, though i guess i'd take a softer approach to it...
[1:40] <taza> Eh, I thought my approach was fairly soft actually.
[1:40] <RJ45> well, I'd mostly be using it for recreational Emulation, but I'd also be using it to practice Networking stuff as I have an interest in Networking, also worth mentioning, I'm in small collaboration with a project called 'Baked-Pi', and I guess actually having a Raspberry Pi would help in some cases.
[1:47] <RJ45> I've never really used a hardware specific OS before (with the exception of a Smartphone), I have high hopes for Raspbian and look forward to someday using it. (from the screenshots I've seen, it looks great :-) )
[1:48] <vagrantc> raspbian is essentially just Debian
[1:49] <RJ45> I'm so glad that Free/Open-Source has made it this far, really restores you faith in IT and humanity.
[1:49] <RJ45> vagrantc: yeah, but with very hardware specific adjustments!, I think that's really cool :D
[1:50] <ParkerR> Well the only really hardware specific stuff is the bootloader and firmware
[1:50] <vagrantc> well, rebuilding debian's armhf port for an older processor variant
[1:51] <vagrantc> fairly hardware specific ... the rpi is about the only hardware that could make use of that.
[1:51] <ParkerR> True
[1:51] <RJ45> haha!, sorry but what both you's just said makes me happy in such a geeky way.
[1:52] <RJ45> can't wait for my first hands-on taste of the pie
[1:52] * vagrantc goes back to documenting running LTSP on the RPI
[1:52] <taza> ParkerR: BTW, how affliated are you with the project?
[1:53] * ParkerR goes back to not using the Pi he has :|
[1:53] <ParkerR> taza, Just a user
[1:53] <taza> Ah.
[1:53] <taza> I was mostly wondering if plugwash was gonna do that just-barebones-Debian install.
[1:53] <ParkerR> I saw a debian image floating around that was basically tjhe server install
[1:54] <ParkerR> Was less than 1gb I think
[1:54] <taza> ... that's pretty huge.
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[1:56] <taza> plugwash was talking that if there's one gonna be stuck on the site, he'll be the one making it.
[1:57] <taza> But barebones Debian is well under a gig
[1:58] <RJ45> I'm such a slave to .deb packages
[1:59] <RJ45> if it wasn't for those, I'd either not be using Linux based OSs, or I'd be on .rpi packages
[2:00] <vagrantc> RJ45: so, i know you're enthusiastic, but it feels like you're just chiming in without really adding much here...
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[2:09] <vagrantc> looks like a default debootstrap of raspbian is about 277M
[2:09] <vagrantc> not including the kernel+initrd and whatever you want on top of a base install
[2:10] * vagrantc retries with --variant=minbase
[2:10] <vagrantc> oh, and without the firmware and all thta
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[2:10] <RJ45> vagrantc: if I actually had a Raspberry Pi, I'd be here more often and "chime in" more ;-)
[2:12] * vagrantc sighs
[2:13] <vagrantc> looks like a minimal base install is about 166M
[2:13] <taza> Hm
[2:13] <ParkerR> vagrantc, Is this taking into account armhf or just the base x86 install?
[2:13] * vagrantc ponders putting together a minbase image and publishing it somewhere
[2:13] <RJ45> vagrantc: does that include a package manager?
[2:13] <vagrantc> ParkerR: it's raspbian
[2:13] <ParkerR> Neat
[2:13] <vagrantc> ParkerR: so yeah, armhf
[2:14] <taza> I could just do a bootstrap by installing the recommended install and bootstrapping using an USB card reader.
[2:14] <vagrantc> exactly
[2:14] <taza> vagrantc: That a good plan?
[2:14] <vagrantc> oh, my numbers aare a bit off
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[2:14] <vagrantc> knock about 3MB off that
[2:15] <vagrantc> it included the qemu-user-static binary
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[2:15] <taza> Hmm
[2:15] <vagrantc> er, qemu-arm-static
[2:15] <taza> vagrantc: Care for a few questions?
[2:15] <vagrantc> taza: that's a reasonable plan ... there are a few random bits you'll have to configure manually
[2:15] <vagrantc> taza: ask, worst that happens is i don't answer :)
[2:16] <taza> If I do a debootstrap off the default one, I just partition 100mb for fat32 and then 1gb for the rest, can I later on use raspi-config to expand the partition?
[2:16] <vagrantc> i don't know raspi-config at all, really
[2:16] <taza> ... there's ways to expand the partition otherwise.
[2:16] <vagrantc> i mostly just have bootstrapped systems using qemu-debootstrap
[2:16] <taza> ... wish I remembered what
[2:17] <taza> Got a link for qemu-bootstrap?
[2:17] <vagrantc> taza: you could do it manually, and then run resize2fs (presuming you're using ext4 or one of the other ext*)
[2:17] <taza> 'cuz I'd use debootstrap as it is
[2:17] <taza> Yeah, ext3.
[2:17] <vagrantc> taza: it's included in qemu-user-static
[2:17] <vagrantc> taza: so you can bootstrap an arm chroot from an x86 machine
[2:17] <taza> Ah
[2:18] <taza> Well, I'd do bootstrapping on a raspbian install using the Foundation image as the source and an USB card reader.
[2:18] <vagrantc> ah, then you wouldn't need to bother with qemu-debootstrap
[2:18] <taza> Yeah, figured.
[2:18] <vagrantc> i just find it's a lot faster emulating it
[2:19] <taza> Oh, no doubt. Thing is, I don't actually have the hardware to spare, not hardware faster than a Pi anyway. :p
[2:19] <taza> Hm.
[2:19] <vagrantc> heh, then native's the way to go :)
[2:19] <taza> Debian default debootstrap guide doesn't say how to do swap in a file
[2:20] <taza> Or should I make a swap partition anyway? 512mb?
[2:20] <taza> Or 1024mb?
[2:20] <vagrantc> dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=1024k count=N (where N is how many megs you want)
[2:20] <vagrantc> mkswap swap.img
[2:20] <taza> Aite.
[2:20] <vagrantc> swapon swap.img
[2:20] <taza> Does swap in a filesystem cause issues?
[2:21] <taza> Like, performance issues.
[2:21] <taza> At a guess yes.
[2:21] <vagrantc> it's even slower than a raw partition
[2:21] <vagrantc> since you have all the filesystem overhead
[2:21] <vagrantc> but not unbearable
[2:21] <taza> Yeah, figured. So, how much swap for Pi?
[2:21] <taza> I can just as well do raw.
[2:21] <vagrantc> if you're using a lot of swap, it's probably bad news anyways
[2:21] <taza> At a guess, I'd say 512mb
[2:22] <ParkerR> Pi shouldnt be using swap
[2:22] <ParkerR> swap is very hard on the SD card
[2:22] <RJ45> ...swap is always a bad idea
[2:22] <taza> ... will Debian freak out without swap?
[2:22] <ParkerR> taza, Works just fine wouthout swap
[2:22] <ParkerR> *without
[2:22] <ParkerR> Just dont use all your memory
[2:23] <taza> What happens if I use up all my memory and don't have swap?
[2:23] <ParkerR> I think (not completely sure) it crashes
[2:24] <taza> Something in this old bone container of mine says "it refuses the allocation by the software"
[2:25] <RJ45> the only times in ANY situation swap is a good idea is for a little crash proofing in-case you max-out your RAM, or is you have one of those new-fangled PCI(e) cards that let you use RAM as a super-fast, super-volatile SSD.
[2:25] <RJ45> or if you*
[2:25] <ParkerR> You dont need any special PCI card to do a ramdisk
[2:26] <taza> ... wait, what?
[2:26] <RJ45> ParkerR: I know
[2:26] <taza> ... oh, right, I have someone ignored.
[2:26] <ParkerR> taza, Haha sorry
[2:26] <RJ45> ParkerR: but sometimes you need a larger Ramdisk
[2:26] <taza> See, that's why I don't like doing it.
[2:26] <taza> Time to turn it off... for now.
[2:27] <RJ45> taza: friend?
[2:27] <vagrantc> taza: the last thing that requests memory that isn't available gets killed
[2:27] <RJ45> :P
[2:27] <vagrantc> typically
[2:27] <taza> Yeah, that's what I remembered.
[2:28] <vagrantc> there's also a swappiness setting that can discourage the use of swap unless absolutely necessary
[2:28] <RJ45> maxing out your RAM can be extremely bad if you have core processes that often require varying RAM
[2:29] <taza> Yeah, a bit of spare swap and turning down swappiness might be the best option.
[2:30] <vagrantc> taza: you using a 512MB or 256MB model?
[2:30] <RJ45> it's always good to have a little swap, it's using it too much that's a bad thing
[2:31] <taza> vagrantc: 512mb
[2:33] <vagrantc> taza: i wouldn't really dedicate more that 128MB, honestly ... if it's using more swap than that, it'll be un-useable and likely to eventually fill up swap anyways and then crash
[2:33] <taza> I like matching swap with RAM.
[2:33] <taza> I dunno why, but I do. :p
[2:33] <vagrantc> but it's really a personal preference
[2:34] <vagrantc> makes sense if you need to suspend-to-disk or something
[2:34] <taza> That's actually exactly why.
[2:34] <vagrantc> dunno if that's supported on the rpi
[2:34] <taza> Me neither, but old habits die hard
[2:34] <RJ45> a good rule of thumb is 1/4 Swap of the amount of RAM.
[2:35] <taza> That's a bad rule of thumb.
[2:35] <RJ45> ...so 4GB RAM = 1GB Swap
[2:35] <RJ45> taza: not the worst
[2:35] <taza> Well, actually it is.
[2:35] <taza> It's hands down the worst rule of thumb for swap I've ever heard.
[2:35] <RJ45> taza: nice OPINION
[2:36] <taza> RJ45: Mind telling the class your age?
[2:37] <RJ45> taza: why should I tell my age to the person who refuses to let me know what disease he has?
[2:37] <taza> You don't have to, I already know.
[2:37] <vagrantc> uh, folks...
[2:37] <taza> See, kid, here's the thing.
[2:37] <RJ45> 'k
[2:37] <taza> Competency. Don't even try to have an opinion about everything.
[2:38] <taza> You can't ever be right about everything, and even trying is folly reserved for... well, you should know that point.
[2:38] <RJ45> taza: well I can see how that would apply to you, yes.
[2:38] <taza> Have well-researched points, then don't voice in unless you're fairly confident in what you are saying - or alternatively, be clear that you don't know.
[2:39] <taza> It gets easier with age.
[2:40] <taza> See, I know you probably aren't listening, and probably think I'm just an old fogey spouting nonsense that adults always do.
[2:41] <taza> But it takes a lot more wisdom to admit you don't know than it takes to pretend you do.
[2:41] <RJ45> some things don't need to be accurate, and sometimes there's know 'pin-point' answer.
[2:41] <RJ45> there's no*
[2:41] <taza> Stop making excuses. Let's get back to the channel's topic, shall we?
[2:41] * vagrantc agrees with taza
[2:42] <RJ45> I'm not the one who went off topic :-/
[2:42] <vagrantc> really, this channel is about raspbian, let's keep the personal critiques out
[2:42] * mmaton_bnc is now known as mmaton
[2:42] <vagrantc> RJ45: and please don't be the one who keeps it off topic
[2:43] <taza> vagrantc: Anyway, as I was saying, I always get enough swap to ensure that I can suspend to disk.
[2:43] <RJ45> vagrantc: I hate ignorance, ignorance is a very bad, and often dangerous thing.
[2:43] <vagrantc> taza: yeah, that's your call. i tend to prefer little to no swap (unless suspend-to-disk is needed)
[2:43] * mmaton is now known as Corpdraco
[2:44] <vagrantc> RJ45: now you're just trolling.
[2:44] <taza> Hm. I seem to remember there was a way to make certain users use only a certain amount of memory
[2:44] <RJ45> vagrantc: ?
[2:44] <vagrantc> taza: ulimit?
[2:45] <RJ45> what amount of RAM is in use after booting a fresh install of Raspian?
[2:48] * Corpdraco (~mmaton@eat.shit.and.die.in.a.carfi.re) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[2:48] * mmaton (~mmaton@eat.shit.and.die.in.a.carfi.re) has joined #raspbian
[2:50] * surfn (~quassel@121.98.125.19) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:56] * bertrik_ (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:57] <taza> vagrantc: Looks like limits.conf may be what I'm looking for. Unsure. More research needed.
[3:04] * jyp (~jyp@58.149.168.130) has joined #raspbian
[3:05] <taza> IIRC there's some limits inbuilt
[3:14] <RJ45> ...I really wanna know ...I don't have an RPi yet and it'd be cool to know.
[3:14] <taza> It depends on the specific install.
[3:15] <RJ45> just the regular Raspbian?
[3:15] <taza> It still depends on what you're running
[3:15] <taza> A fresh install doesn't really give an useful point of data.
[3:15] <RJ45> as I said, a fresh install of the regular OS only.
[3:15] <taza> Because X takes a fair bit of memory.
[3:15] <RJ45> oh, err, okay
[3:16] <RJ45> hold on a sac
[3:16] <RJ45> ...good point BTW
[3:16] <taza> So it's heavily dependant on if you boot to a desktop or to a terminal.
[3:17] <taza> I don't unfortunately have a fresh install or the hardware (sd cards) to check right now
[3:17] <RJ45> 1920 x 1080 and RPi model B 512MB RAM version
[3:17] <RJ45> 'k
[3:18] <RJ45> there should really be a list somewhere
[3:18] <taza> Video memory's assigned 64mb by default, so the resolution oughta not do much
[3:18] <RJ45> can ya gimmie a blapark figure?
[3:18] <RJ45> ballpark*
[3:19] <taza> ParkerR, you got your Pi handy?
[3:19] <RJ45> x.x
[3:19] <ParkerR> taza, It can be
[3:21] <RJ45> I've heard a lot of surprisingly good things 'bout the RPi's Graphics output
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[3:22] <taza> ParkerR: Ballpark for Raspbian+X+LXDE memory use?
[3:22] <taza> The RPi's graphics chip is actually modern
[3:22] <ParkerR> taza, I think the last I remember it was around 140 - 150
[3:23] <ParkerR> I can check
[3:23] <ParkerR> Although mine wont be representative. Ive disbaled some services and cleaned up a bit
[3:23] <RJ45> ParkerR: that's okay, I'm cool with that average
[3:24] <taza> 'bout 200mb with the graphics
[3:24] <taza> As my Pi's meminfo says
[3:24] <RJ45> not bad, tough I was expecting something more like 110 or less
[3:24] <vagrantc> RJ45: maybe until you can get your hands on hardware, you could try it out with qemu: http://xecdesign.com/qemu-emulating-raspberry-pi-the-easy-way/
[3:24] <RJ45> then again though, my Smartphone's Andround bloats the RAM an astonishing amount
[3:25] <RJ45> vagrantc: yeah, I saw a similar article in Slitaz forums
[3:25] <taza> Iceweasel is such a pleasant use experience in the Pi, heh
[3:26] <vagrantc> i've rediscovered dillo
[3:26] <taza> Better than you'd expect, but still slow
[3:26] <vagrantc> it's really lightweight and fast ... although doesn't render great
[3:26] <ParkerR> Chromium was decent enough for me
[3:26] <taza> Yeah, dillo's not that great
[3:26] <taza> I used to use dillo back when I did 200mhz systems
[3:27] <vagrantc> midori is what ships on the rpi foundation's image?
[3:27] <RJ45> taza: forgot to say; I never doubted how modern the RPi's Graphics chip was, I was more amazed by the size to performance ration
[3:27] <taza> 200mb free with Iceweasel+X+LXDE
[3:27] <vagrantc> on a 512?
[3:27] <taza> Yesh
[3:28] <ParkerR> How much allocated to the GPU?
[3:28] <taza> 64
[3:28] <ParkerR> Shouldnt be that low
[3:28] <ParkerR> Weird
[3:28] <taza> Well I'm not 100% confident in the quality of this install
[3:28] <taza> It's an experiment and has a fair amount of excess garbage
[3:28] <RJ45> vagrantc: Midori is TERRIBLE!, whenever I've used it, it just randomly constantly uses my Internet connection!, even with no web-page loaded!, wtf for?!?
[3:28] <taza> It's just the one I have handy.
[3:29] <taza> 'cuz, again, short on hardware right now. I'll have more in a few days when my mail order arrives.
[3:29] <vagrantc> RJ45: works fine for me
[3:29] <ParkerR> RJ45, There might be something else causing it. Never had midori act weird for me
[3:30] <RJ45> vagrantc: ParkerR: open a fresh instance of Midori with IRC closed and use System Monitor?
[3:30] * jakeri (~gfgf@host-109-204-168-193.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:30] * jakeri (~gfgf@host-109-204-168-193.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) has joined #raspbian
[3:33] <RJ45> oh how I wish I had a Raspberry Pi, I've been wanting one ever since they where first made!, sucks to be broke
[3:33] * opieng (~opieng3@95.144.13.203) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[3:33] <taza> Happens to most of us
[3:33] <ParkerR> RJ45, How long does it take to save up $35?
[3:34] <RJ45> ParkerR: in my situation, too long
[3:34] <RJ45> whenever I get any money it's not much, and always has-to go on something important
[3:36] * bizarro_1 (~bizarro_1@56.Red-193-152-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:37] <RJ45> ParkerR: if you don't know already, I has a GoFundMe donation page set-up if ur feelin' generous ;)
[3:38] <ParkerR> ...
[3:38] <RJ45> :-/
[3:38] <taza> RJ45: Not going to lie, that's an obnoxious personality trait.
[3:38] <ParkerR> ^ its almost like "please ive me money"
[3:38] <ParkerR> *give
[3:39] <RJ45> (I only give the URL in a PM BTW, 'cos of logs)
[3:39] <taza> Worse, it's likely to be counterproductive. The only reason it works in real life is so that the beggar goes away, and on IRC we have /ignore.
[3:39] <RJ45> ParkerR: or a Raspberry Pi!, heheh, either way :P
[3:40] <ParkerR> On a side note... a Xbox controller and USb receiver has been my best investment in a while
[3:40] <RJ45> taza: some people give money to those who beg, out of pure kindness, not just to get that smell out their face.
[3:41] <taza> If I need to give money out of kindness... I give to children's hospitals.
[3:42] <RJ45> taza: fair enough, though there's always 'spur of the moment donations' :) , of which I incredibly highly doubt you care for.
[3:42] <taza> If you aren't Child's Play or EFF, you can entirely forget getting anything.
[3:43] * greenscientist is now known as scientist
[3:43] <RJ45> taza: are those charities?
[3:43] <ParkerR> Yes
[3:43] <taza> Or Red Cross.
[3:43] <taza> EFF is sorta a charity
[3:43] <RJ45> in the UK, we have 'Children In Need'
[3:44] <taza> More it's a nonprofit dedicated to for the fight for free speech online.
[3:44] <taza> Child's Play is a charity through and through, and Red Cross you oughta know.
[3:44] <RJ45> yeah...
[3:45] * mike_t (~mike@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspbian
[3:47] <ParkerR> Did my last line go through?
[3:47] <RJ45> <ParkerR> Yes
[3:48] <RJ45> :P
[3:48] <ParkerR> Heh ok. Connection is being weird
[3:48] <ParkerR> "My Pi is kinda abandoned atm till I find a use for it. An Acer C7 became my portable machine."
[3:48] <Tachyon`> ah, a chromebook
[3:49] <taza> My Pi's got several places to go.
[3:49] <RJ45> ParkerR: I could use with a Pi if ya givin' one away :P
[3:50] <ParkerR> Tachyon`, Yeah pretty sweet for the price. Installed Ubuntu and have been doing a ton with it
[3:50] <taza> The Pi's got plenty to do for me.
[3:51] <taza> But it's mostly a media machine
[3:51] <taza> I bought it to see if it could do an another task which could use bulk boards... and the answer is "yes, but a commercial solution is better"
[3:51] <taza> That is, if it could be a web browsing machine for everyone I know that needs one
[3:52] <taza> And the answer to that is that it isn't quite that user friendly.
[3:52] <ParkerR> Gotta love digging through old images XD (not sure why my eyes were closed in both shots) http://i.minus.com/ibf0w6zISUWaqN.JPG
[4:03] <taza> I mean, sure, I could just make a good image and do that, buuut...
[4:04] <taza> With the SD corruption issues and the performance, it wouldn't make a very good internet machine.
[4:04] <ParkerR> Ive never had an SD corrupt
[4:05] <ParkerR> Came close once. Accidentally overclocked a little to high
[4:05] <taza> Yeah, I wouldn't overvolt.
[4:05] <ParkerR> But caught it soon enough that an fsck fixed it
[4:07] <RJ45> if I had a Raspberry Pi, I'd treat it with respect, I guess being as poor as me makes you look after what you have more carefully
[4:07] <ParkerR> Whoever said anything about mistreating the Pi?
[4:08] <RJ45> overclocking anything is mistreatment in my eyes
[4:08] <taza> Well maybe you should read more of the Pi documentation
[4:09] <ParkerR> Well if done right it can make the Pi much better
[4:09] <taza> The Pi can handle some overclocking.
[4:09] <ParkerR> Or whatever you are overclocking much better
[4:09] <RJ45> but you shouldn't overclock
[4:09] <taza> RJ45: The default install provided by the Raspberry Pi foundation gives you overclock options and recommends overclocking
[4:10] <RJ45> it decreases life expectancy, and if done wrong, can kill it!
[4:10] <taza> Nah, that's overvolting.
[4:10] <RJ45> I still wouldn't
[4:12] <RJ45> if I had a Raspberry Pi, I'd love it too much to take even the slightest of risks
[4:13] <vagrantc> ok, it's might rare i ever use the ignore feature of IRC... but sheesh.
[4:14] <vagrantc> RJ45: please, for your benefit as much as ours, enough with the "if I had a Raspberry Pi..." business.
[4:15] <RJ45> O.o
[4:20] <PhotoJim> if I had a Raspberry Pi... I'd compute in the morning... I'd compute in the evening all over this land!
[4:21] <PhotoJim> crowd's too young...
[4:22] <taza> I was gonna quote The Big Lebowski, but I realized RJ45's probably too young.
[4:23] <PhotoJim> Heh.
[4:23] <PhotoJim> Well, hope that joke was slightly amusing to you then.
[4:23] <PhotoJim> and to those who don't get it... If I Had a Hammer might make it make more sense.
[4:25] <taza> Eh, there's always gonna be a new generation, and they're all gonna think they're so clever for doing those same tricks everyone else did before them.
[4:25] <taza> ... and now, with the internet, we can really see it does happen to every generation.
[4:29] <taza> And afterall, that's the reason the Raspberry Pi came into being - so that the newer generation can learn to utilize computers the same we did.
[4:30] <ParkerR> Raspberry Pi is today as the Tandy and Commodore 64 were way back when
[4:30] <ParkerR> Starter computers
[4:30] <taza> I've got an actual Commodore 64 here, maybe I should repair that and give that to the next generation.
[4:30] <ParkerR> <3 BASIC
[4:31] <taza> I'm not entirely sure the internet connectivity is a good aspect of a starter computer. But eh, they can manually set clocks.
[4:32] <PhotoJim> my C64 cost $400 when I bought it new. that's one pretty major difference. :)
[4:32] <PhotoJim> and that didn't include a storage device.
[4:37] <taza> Yeah, even if the Raspberry Pi is $65 in practice, it's still cheap.
[4:37] <taza> ... because of shipping.
[4:40] <taza> ... welpnope
[4:41] <taza> Now the site's changed up, and the pricing is $65 for one and $130 for two, when it was $65 for one and $100 for two before.
[4:42] <vagrantc> they upped the price?
[4:42] <taza> Nah, they switched distributors up
[4:43] <taza> And the new distributor asks for... just as much as the brick and mortar chain. Yeah good luck with that.
[4:43] <ParkerR> What switched?
[4:43] <taza> Just the link apparently
[4:44] <taza> RS gives still the $100 for two discount, element14 doesn't.,
[4:44] <ParkerR> No I mean are they charging that for the Raspberry Pi or something else?
[4:44] <taza> That's Raspberry Pi price, yes.
[4:44] <ParkerR> $100 for two... wth
[4:44] <taza> I cannot find it under $60 anywhere at all.
[4:45] <taza> That is with taxes and shipping though
[4:45] <vagrantc> i thought they were $25/$35 originally
[4:46] <taza> Well good luck with that.
[4:46] <ParkerR> Umm
[4:46] <ParkerR> http://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-modb-512m/model-b-assembled-board-only/dp/43W5302
[4:46] <ParkerR> $35
[4:46] <vagrantc> plus shipping
[4:46] <taza> I'm in Europe.
[4:46] <vagrantc> the model A was $25
[4:47] <taza> ParkerR: I'm not kidding, in Finland it's impossible to get a Raspberry Pi for under $60 unless you're splitting shipping with someone.
[4:47] <ParkerR> O.o
[4:47] <taza> And even then it's over $45 a pop.
[4:48] <taza> Taxes+Shipping.
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[5:04] <RJ45> what command does one run in qemu for Rapbian>#
[5:04] <RJ45> ?
[5:04] <taza> vagrantc, you about?
[5:04] <taza> RJ45 had a legit question.
[5:04] * hrebicek (~hrebicek_@ip4-83-240-6-28.cust.nbox.cz) has joined #raspbian
[5:05] <RJ45> -_-
[5:06] <RJ45> well?
[5:08] <taza> Apparently he isn't present, and he's the one who knows qemu.
[5:08] <RJ45> ???
[5:08] <vagrantc> taza: ish
[5:09] <taza> He asked how to setup qemu for Raspbian
[5:09] <vagrantc> RJ45: not sure i understand your question
[5:09] <RJ45> I wanna run the Raspian .img, how?
[5:09] <vagrantc> i've never actually run qemu to emulate raspbian, but done it for other thigns
[5:10] <RJ45> like?
[5:10] <vagrantc> RJ45: the link i posted a while back shows how
[5:10] <vagrantc> RJ45: but you could search for it online
[5:10] <RJ45> I actually just installed qemu purely to run it x.x
[5:10] <RJ45> repost link plz?
[5:11] <taza> http://xecdesign.com/qemu-emulating-raspberry-pi-the-easy-way/
[5:11] <RJ45> thx
[5:11] <vagrantc> i haven't tested those instructions, but they look feasible
[5:12] <RJ45> vagrantc: what dod YOU do?
[5:12] <RJ45> did*
[5:12] <vagrantc> there may be other instructions as well... the internet knows.
[5:12] <vagrantc> i searched the internet for instructions on how to run qemu, and gave you the first link i found that looked reasonable...
[5:13] <RJ45> taza did that
[5:13] <RJ45> not you
[5:13] <vagrantc> it sure looks like the same link i posted
[5:13] <taza> Actually, I just copy-pasted his link
[5:14] <taza> I fetched it from the buffer by using a search.
[5:14] <RJ45> vagrantc: but you said you never did it in qemu!
[5:14] <vagrantc> RJ45: no, but i've used qemu for a lot of things
[5:14] <vagrantc> RJ45: but never to emulate the raspberry pi
[5:15] <RJ45> oh whatever -_-
[5:15] <vagrantc> yeah.
[5:15] <vagrantc> reading instructions too hard?
[5:15] <RJ45> ffs...
[5:15] <RJ45> ...morons...
[5:15] <vagrantc> thanks.
[5:15] <RJ45> YW
[5:16] * ReggieUK (ReggieUK@94.12.160.160) Quit ()
[5:16] * vagrantc puts away the spoon
[5:16] <taza> RJ45: Less teenage impatience and rage, more reading and thoughtful consideration.
[5:18] <taza> We've all been there, now deal with it.
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[5:54] <Fakeer> I am trying to have my two external hard disks available on Mac for file r/w and also use one of them as my TimeMachine backup location. I am stuck as after installing netatalk(from repo) I can't find afp.conf. How to proceed?
[5:55] <taza> Might be better asked on the forum, it's specialized enough that it might be troublematic here
[5:57] <Fakeer> taza: Posted few days back. No response yet. How can I check a software's version on pi? "netatalk --version" gives error
[5:57] <taza> At a guess, aptitude.
[5:57] <ParkerR> dpkg -l | grep netatalk
[5:58] <taza> ... or that. Same thing, just faster
[5:59] <Fakeer> ParkerR: Thanks. And looks like I got it, repo version is 2.2, need to get the latest from source some other repo if possible like PPA on ubuntu.
[5:59] <ParkerR> Or compile it from source
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[9:53] <lordievader> Good morning.
[9:53] * twolife` is now known as twolife
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[10:16] <Jamoir> hey
[10:16] <Jamoir> has anyone got the time to awnser a few questions for a newbie?
[10:22] <lordievader> Jamoir: What is your problem?
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[10:24] <Jamoir> iam not sure if this is the right place to ask.. but here goes
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[10:26] <Jamoir> iam getting a pi in a days time, i have little electronics exp, just basic understanding and repair skills. iam looking for a way to go about hooking up a VFD i salvaged
[10:30] <VolltextsuCH3> Hi to all I want to ask you also something. I like stream a movie with the omxplayer and I have a 512MB rp. So how much schould I use for memory-split? Is it better to use more for the graphic or isn't it?
[10:35] <Jamoir> Thanks for your time guys, sorry to bother you, i shall take my questions else where, and do my research. if anyones intrested, this is the vfd i am using :http://www.newark.com/noritake-itron/gu256x128c-3900/vfd-module-blu-grn-256x128/dp/61M6518
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[12:25] <LippyLee> Hello
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[13:24] <gnarface> so, i noticed recently that (perhaps after the last update) omxplayer has begun to leave the screen corrupted after i exit it
[13:24] <gnarface> anyone know what's up with that?
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[14:56] <sweed> hi guys
[14:57] <sweed> can someone tell me how can I configure rasperry as a print server??
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[15:01] <gordonDrogon> google debian print server
[15:01] <gordonDrogon> and follow the instructions.
[15:01] <gordonDrogon> (onec you've installed raspbian that is)
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[15:07] <sweed> thanks gordonDrogon, I need to install printer driver? (I've got an epson aculaset M2400)
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[15:59] <- *Martin89* bin zur Zeit nicht da
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[18:19] <taza> Hmm
[18:19] <taza> Any way to check a dd'd image?
[18:19] <taza> I have an old, worn SD card I want to install the default install on
[18:20] <vagrantc> can you do md5sum on the device itself?
[18:20] <taza> I have no clue
[18:20] <taza> Plus, the device would be of a different size
[18:20] <vagrantc> right
[18:20] <taza> It'd be some kind of diff line
[18:20] <vagrantc> i think it works verifying one direction but not the other
[18:21] <vagrantc> i.e. dumping a device to a file
[18:21] <taza> 'cuz this SD card is seriously worn
[18:23] <vagrantc> taza: you could loop mount the partition off the file, and mount the sd partition, and: "diff -r .."
[18:23] <vagrantc> although it would require getting the right offset for the loopback mount ...
[18:24] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[18:24] <vagrantc> played those games recently to extract the boot firmware
[18:25] <vagrantc> mount -o loop,offset=$((512*8192)) /srv/src/2013-02-09-wheezy-raspbian.img /media/rpi
[18:25] <vagrantc> would need to adjust for the second partition
[18:25] * OutOfLine (~user@82-220-73-141.dslplus.solnet.ch) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:26] <vagrantc> 122880 instead of 8192 for the second partition
[18:26] <taza> I'm pretty sure this is too complex
[18:26] <vagrantc> heh
[18:27] <taza> Like, I think there's a way to get diff to consider only until the EOF of the first one
[18:27] <vagrantc> diff?
[18:27] <vagrantc> diffing the raw partitions?
[18:27] <taza> I'm writing a sd card image
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[18:28] <vagrantc> some utility that verifies at write-time would be simpler... not sure dd does that, though.
[18:29] <vagrantc> although it would probably catch disasterous failures
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[19:01] <mac-> hey
[19:01] <mac-> I have configured my Arch ARM and wish to make backup copy of the SD card content
[19:01] <mac-> it is simple dd bs=1M if=/dev/sdb of=BackUp_<date>.img ?
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[19:06] <gordonDrogon> mac-, that presums the SD card is in another Linux PC?
[19:08] <mac-> there is Arch ARM Linux on the card
[19:08] <mac-> and I wish to make backup
[19:08] <mac-> because I had several fs crashes already
[19:08] <mac-> and just checking if SD card will work properly this time
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[19:34] <taza> Should the Pi be able to run off a powered USB hub... connected to it via itself?
[19:34] <taza> As in I connected the powered hub to the OUT ports, and the Pi booted.
[19:35] <taza> That's one unexpected AND concerning feature
[19:36] <gordonDrogon> Yes.
[19:36] <taza> So it's supposed to do that?
[19:36] <gordonDrogon> technically your hub is at fault for providing power up the link cable.
[19:37] <taza> Yeah, I've currently got the web site open for buying a new hub
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> but it works fin on Rev 2 Pi's. It won't work on Rev 1's due to the polyfuses.
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> I'm powering one next to me like that.
[19:37] <taza> Hmm. This hub has an optional 2A power supply
[19:37] <taza> Might come in handy
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> the hub I use has a 2A supply.
[19:38] <taza> It was just the only powered hub I had
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> LOGIK by any chance?
[19:39] <taza> DeltaCo
[19:40] <taza> I was just freaked out by it happening suddenly
[19:41] <taza> ... actually, that would explain why the dang thing even worked in the first place
[19:41] <taza> The only reason that hub worked in the previous install I had it in (A 700mhz Celeron) was BECAUSE it provided power up the link cable
[19:41] <taza> Cheap chinese parts eh.
[19:42] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: heh, i think i have that hub. i've got the original pi (no mount holes), so i had to cut the +5V line on the hub to make things happy
[19:43] <BCMM> taza: some hubs, especially if they're supposed to work both with and without a power supply, basically connect all the 5v lines together
[19:44] <BCMM> and they will gladly feed power the "wrong way" on the wire that's supposed to go to the host machine
[19:45] <BCMM> early pis have a fuse that causes them to crash when "back-powered", later revs work fine that way, though iirc it bypasses some sort of protective circuit and increases the scope for a dodgy hub to break the pi
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[19:48] <taza> Yeah, I won't connect that hub powered again
[19:49] <BCMM> taza: meh, plenty of people are intentionally running them that way
[19:49] <BCMM> taza: and i might be wrong about bypassing regulating circuits - may be thinking of power in via GPIO header
[19:50] <taza> Eh, I don't need to power it that way anyway
[19:50] <gordonDrogon> BCMM, I powered my Pi originally using a normal usb to µUSB cable from the hub, then plugged the up-link in too. worked fine.
[19:51] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: which hub, and which rev of pi?
[19:51] <gordonDrogon> you can feed 5v in via the GPIO connector too. it must be regulated though!
[19:51] <gordonDrogon> BCMM, rev 1 Pi, LOGIC (aka cheap PC world) hub.
[19:51] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: does back-power over USB bypass the regulator?
[19:52] <gordonDrogon> BCMM, there is no regulator on the Pi. the 5V must be regulated.
[19:52] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: i may be using terminology wrong - is it more dangerous to feed power over GPIO than over microUSB?
[19:54] <taza> Well, that gave my firmware a good jolt, maybe it'll work now.
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> the 'danger' is that something on the Pi, or connected to USB will draw more than 700mA - then the current into the gpio and over the PCB may potentially exceed the capacity of the copper tracks.
[19:54] <gordonDrogon> that's why the µUSB has the 700mA polyfuse.
[19:55] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: anyway, tbh i modded my hub on forum advice without waiting for it to cause problems, but you can trip a polyfuse or something by feeding back power to a rev1, and when feeding power both ways, some people get a really hard to diagnose problem involving it only tripping when under load and so on
[19:55] <BCMM> gordonDrogon: ah, i see
[19:55] <taza> gordonDrogon: And nothing but the µUSB has the polyfuse in Rev2?
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> that's right.
[19:55] <taza> Aite, that's what BCMM was asking, I wager.
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> so plug in a usb peripheral that draws too much current and it'll stop the whole Pi rather than just it's own socket.
[19:57] <taza> Aite, good to know.
[19:57] <taza> So, my little misadventure caused no damage, and I'll now know that hub is bad
[19:57] <taza> Well, "bad"
[19:58] <taza> 'cuz the Pi had nothing connected but the keyboard and the mouse
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[20:13] <taza> The firmware it gave a jolt? My brain. So I can focus again
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[22:03] <Rexodus> oog
[22:03] <Rexodus> sry...
[22:03] <gordonDrogon> uug
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[22:29] <yang> This is the error that I get now, I think compiling goes over the memory limits and kills it http://pastebin.com/fzgy91cm
[22:29] <yang> i was monitoring memory usage and it goes over it
[22:30] <yang> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=704999
[22:33] <plugwash> Was it you who filed that bug?
[22:34] <yang> right
[22:34] <yang> i noticed I would of have it done on launchpad
[22:34] <yang> instead of debian
[22:35] <yang> but i used "reportbug"
[22:43] <plugwash> mmm, I should probablly look into seeing if I can change reportbug's behaviour on a raspbian system
[22:43] <plugwash> (/me adds it to his endless mental todo list)
[22:44] <plugwash> Anyway the cause of that error message is nearly always that the OOM killer decided to kill the compiler, add more swap.
[22:44] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
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[23:38] <Frictor> Heee. Chat from the Pi.
[23:39] <Frictor> Query: is there a way to pipe the outputs of apt-get processes to a second LXTerminal window? I'd like to be able to plug commands into one window and then be able to switch over to the other to see what's going on.
[23:40] <Frictor> That way if I want to do a bunch of pulls, while it's working on one, I can just plug them into the first window.
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[23:44] <Frictor> I think the channel is dead....
[23:45] * Shaan7 (~quassel@kde/shantanu) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:45] <taza> Welcome to Freenode, everything takes hours here
[23:45] <taza> Plus, it's a lot more active when UK sysadmins are at work
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[23:48] <Frictor> Actually not everything takes hours on freenode.
[23:48] <Frictor> It depends on the activity of the channel and the people on it.
[23:49] <Frictor> I've been on freenode for about 5 years or so.
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[23:55] <OliverJW> Could someone help me? On the pi it treats my UK keyboard as american (the # key is intreprated as a \ and the @ is shown as ") using the raspi-config and going to the keyboard layout doesn't work it just goes back to the terminal and says [ok] Setting preliminary keymap...done.
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[23:56] <plugwash> Is the package "keyboard-configuration" installed?
[23:57] <plugwash> have you tried "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" ?
[23:58] <OliverJW> just done that, the CPU runs 100% then goes idle again and the terminal shifts the cursor to the next line
[23:59] * sujal_ (~quassel@brln-4db81fa1.pool.mediaWays.net) has joined #raspbian
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