#raspbian IRC Log


IRC Log for 2013-09-11

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:54] <edman007> Was raspbian just released today? http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/ lists 9-10 as the timestamp in the release notes, but the torrent seems dead... and why is it named 7-26?
[0:56] <sney> that's foundation stuff, they do their own thing with the images etc
[0:56] <edman007> ahhh
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[8:19] <D4CH_RPi> Hello.
[8:19] <D4CH_RPi> A long time ago I created a user on my ProFTPD server for a friend. Now I want to add another, but I cannot find out where the file with the users and passwords are?
[8:20] <D4CH_RPi> Are there such a file, like if I have forgotten a users password?
[8:20] <D4CH_RPi> Or should I just use the "add user" command?
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[8:24] <Odie_> this is really a proftpd question, not raspberry specific
[8:25] <Odie_> it has been ages since I've done anything with ftp, but if I remember it right, ftp usually has its own passwd file somewhere where the encrypted form of the password is stored
[8:25] <Odie_> so recovering password is tricky, but changing it to new one is easy
[8:26] <dwatkins> depends on the daemon, Odie_ - I'd suggest using vsftp, which (iirc) uses the same passwd database as other users, and supports sftp, which is really what it's best to use in general unless it's all local.
[8:27] <hifi> just don't use ftp
[8:27] <hifi> vsftp supports ftps, not sftp
[8:27] <dwatkins> ah ok, use scp, then, yeah
[8:27] <hifi> openssh supports both scp and sftp
[8:27] <Odie_> I guess ftp still would have some uses, but not too many
[8:27] <hifi> there's no really any reason to use old ftp anymore as ssh based services are zero config
[8:28] <hifi> and obviously more secure
[8:28] <Odie_> windows users may not have ssh/sftp installed
[8:28] <Odie_> whereas everyone can use ftp
[8:28] <hifi> almost all "ftp" clients support sftp and/or scp
[8:28] <Odie_> firefox?
[8:28] <Odie_> chrome?
[8:28] <hifi> winscp and filezilla are popular
[8:28] <Odie_> ie?
[8:29] <hifi> none of those support uploading files over ftp
[8:29] <Odie_> you dont need extra software for ftp, but you need it for the sftp
[8:29] <hifi> except explorer can upload files over ftp
[8:30] <Odie_> and there is fireftp plugin for firefox
[8:30] <hifi> fireftp apparently supports sftp
[8:30] <Odie_> which supports sftp :D
[8:31] <hifi> but no, ftp should die a painful death
[8:31] <Odie_> i like anonftp for uploads
[8:31] <Odie_> havent used it in ages
[8:31] <Odie_> but thats the feature I like, I can tell my friends to upload stuff to my server without needing to give out any passwords
[8:32] <Odie_> with ssh you open too much other stuff
[8:32] <hifi> completely depends on the use case
[8:32] <Odie_> yes
[8:32] <hifi> you can lock out ssh to sftp only
[8:32] <hifi> that's even fairly easy
[8:32] <Odie_> is there option or do I need weird shell for the user?
[8:32] <D4CH_RPi> so ill just use the add user command in raspbian instead
[8:32] <Odie_> or just set the user shell to sftp?
[8:32] <hifi> and with newer openssh it's also possible to chroot jail it
[8:33] <hifi> Odie_: there's configuration options in sshd_config for sftp only and sftp jail
[8:33] <Odie_> <3
[8:33] <Odie_> progress
[8:33] <hifi> you can match single users or groups
[8:33] <hifi> so yes, you can with very little configuration set up sftp jails for people you don't want to run anything or touch anything outside their gome
[8:33] <hifi> home*
[8:33] <hifi> debian wheezy and raspbian wheezy has recent enough ssh for that
[8:33] <Odie_> what I need more than this is setup that allows me only run few specific commands with key authentication (and nothing else besides those few commands)
[8:34] <Odie_> I did that few years back by writing a script to be in place of the users shell, that allowed only the specified commands to be ran
[8:34] <Odie_> (automated tasks for remote scripts)
[8:34] <hifi> you can specify only specific commands too
[8:35] <hifi> and require key auth
[8:35] <Odie_> hum, a better way than "command" in the authorized_keys?
[8:36] <hifi> that
[8:36] <Odie_> wouldn't I need separate key for each allowed command?
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[8:37] <hifi> that might be true, I haven't really looked into that
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[9:46] <dwatkins> you could create a chroot jail for the user with only specific binaries available.
[9:47] <hifi> that's a big hassle to setup
[9:47] <dwatkins> There might be some mechanism in pam.d that allows a list of commands to be run, too, and there's always sudoers, if it's just root access that's the concern.
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[10:25] <north> Hey. I got this 3G dongle http://goo.gl/ORGDP4 . Any idea on how to configure this with Raspberry Pi ?
[10:25] <north> Here is another link to the data card's specs
[10:25] <north> http://goo.gl/zvWC2U
[10:26] <north> and I've gone through few blogposts, is it really necessary to run sakis3g script ?
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[10:59] <Odie_> north: maybe not
[11:00] <Odie_> it didn't work for mine
[11:00] <Odie_> basically you need usb_modeswitch to reconfigure the device from storage device to usb modem
[11:00] <Odie_> and then you need pppd/ probably some dialer
[11:00] <Odie_> I use vwdialer
[11:00] <hifi> I've found out 3G is complete crap without NetworkManager
[11:01] <hifi> pretty much, because all of that legacy dialing stuff it requires
[11:01] <Odie_> network manager doesnt help if you hit probelms with usbmodeswitch
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[11:01] <Odie_> I have zte device that doesnt swap proprely without reboot
[11:01] <hifi> it should be triggered automatically
[11:01] <Odie_> (probably related to driver being bad)
[11:01] <Odie_> mine needs reboot
[11:02] <hifi> I have two different dongles and with usbmodeswitch installed both spawn the /dev/ttyUSB* device
[11:02] <Odie_> I have setup it so that I call usb modeswitch on boot, and if it fails, it just reboots and then it works fine
[11:02] <hifi> I think one is ZTE and one Huawei
[11:03] <Odie_> after the modeswitch is working (you have the ttyUSB? devices)
[11:03] <Odie_> it's easy
[11:03] <Odie_> just use vwdialer
[11:03] <hifi> you still need to do manual configuration with vwdialer
[11:03] <Odie_> but its not hard
[11:03] <hifi> while on desktop with nm-applet you just hit next next next
[11:03] <Odie_> this is true
[11:04] <Odie_> but it's quite easy with vwdialer
[11:04] <Odie_> much easier than trying to write chat scripts yourself for pppd :D
[11:04] <hifi> much, much easier
[11:04] * werp (~werp@ool-4a58be0f.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:04] <hifi> been there, done that, didn't like
[11:04] <Odie_> I tried to go there, but I failed
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[11:05] <Odie_> I think I some years back did the chat part manually :)
[11:08] <north> so where can I find the exact steps to follow ?
[11:08] <north> any suggestions ?
[11:08] <Odie_> do you have /dev/ttyUSB? devices?
[11:09] <Odie_> (when you connect the 3g modem, do you see that the system sees those as serial devices or usb modem or do you see it as storage device?)
[11:14] <north> Well, to be frank, I've trued usbmodeswitch method on my Ubuntu box, and when I plug the dongle, it gets connected as a 3g device.
[11:14] <north> I have this requirement for sending sms via the 3g dongle
[11:15] <north> so when I try to look for the /dev/ttyUSB* it shows /dev/ttyUSB3
[11:15] <north> but
[11:15] <north> problem starts here
[11:15] <Odie_> I think you can send out sms's with at commands
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[11:15] <north> when I try sendsms from the gsm utils package
[11:16] <north> the terminal throws out a "/dev/ttyUSB3 not recognised device"
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[11:16] <Odie_> do you have that?
[11:16] <north> I've not yet tried connecting the 3G dongle with the RPi,
[11:17] <north> but I'm assuming it will be the same problem with RPi
[11:17] <north> too
[11:17] <Odie_> ls /dev/ttyUSB?
[11:21] <north> so I try this, when I connect the 3G dongle I run tail -f /var/log/messages
[11:21] <north> and it shows the GSM modem is connected to /dev/ttyUSB3
[11:21] <north> so thats how I know
[11:22] <north> ls /dev/ttyUSB throws out rather a long output
[11:23] <north> also, sometimes it says the /dev/USB doesn't even exist
[11:25] <north> ?
[11:25] <north> Odie_:
[11:26] <Odie_> I meant that if you have the ttyUSB3 or not
[11:26] <Odie_> ? = wildchar that matches one character
[11:26] <Odie_> wildcard
[11:26] <north> ofc I do
[11:27] <Odie_> if you miss those devices, the modeswitch did not work
[11:28] <Odie_> I haven't tried sending sms's with the sendsms program
[11:28] <Odie_> maybe you could fire up minicom for ttyUSB3 and see if you can do it manually first?
[11:28] <north> ok. So I'm bit confused now, can you tell me what I must do from the beginning I mean after plugging in the 3G dongle
[11:28] <Odie_> using AT commands
[11:29] <Odie_> to send sms with sendsms, no
[11:29] <north> Well, so I plug in my 3G dongle
[11:29] <north> as a first step
[11:30] <north> and I run tail -f /var/log/syslog
[11:30] <north> to know the location
[11:30] <north> of the device
[11:30] <north> is that it ?
[11:30] <north> or have I missed any step ?
[11:30] <north> Odie_:
[11:30] <Odie_> it should be fine
[11:30] <Odie_> so usbmodswitch seems to be working
[11:31] <north> Um, yea I completely forgot, what do I do to configure the dongle with usbmodswitch ?
[11:31] <Odie_> to get the system to see it as modem
[11:31] <Odie_> so you are set
[11:31] <Odie_> on that part
[11:32] * BManojlovic (~steki@opensuse/member/bmanojlovic) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:32] <north> and whats this hype about sakis3G script ?
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[11:33] <Odie_> it does many of the steps needed and gets you online via the 3g than trying to figure them out yourself
[11:33] <Odie_> it works for many, for my rapsbery it didn't
[11:33] <north> oh
[11:33] <Odie_> (probably because the modeswitch needed reboot, or driver unload or is bugged)
[11:33] <north> and btw do I have to setup this vwdial ?
[11:33] <north> to send sms ?
[11:34] <Odie_> its command to connect to internet
[11:34] <Odie_> so if your plan is to do sms, then its not the tool you are looking for
[11:34] <north> ok
[11:34] <north> I guess, AT commands will do
[11:34] <north> instead of vwdial
[11:34] <north> right ?
[11:34] <Odie_> probably
[11:35] <Odie_> thats what the sendsms utility is most likely trying to do
[11:35] <Odie_> (which you had problems with)
[11:35] * Davespice (~quassel@cpc13-haye17-2-0-cust146.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:36] <north> yea. I'll get back to you when I try it on RPi.
[11:36] <north> either way I'll post the status (hit or miss)
[11:37] <north> thanks Odie_
[11:37] <Odie_> I need to try it on mine ...
[11:37] <north> cool
[11:37] <north> lemme know
[11:37] <north> if its working
[11:37] <north> ;)
[11:38] <Odie_> the modeswtich might work differently on raspbian than your desktop
[11:38] <north> echo "SMS Test Message!" | gsmsendsms -d /dev/ttyUSB0 -b 19200 PHONE_NUMBER
[11:38] <north> try this
[11:38] <north> gsmsendsms is part of gsmutils package
[11:40] <Odie_> need to boot it up
[11:40] <Odie_> and this teleconference might require some attention from me, as the powerpoint slides ended
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[11:51] <Odie_> worked :)
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[12:04] <rhiakath> anyone in here?
[12:04] <SirLagz> yep
[12:04] <rhiakath> great!
[12:04] <SirLagz> can i help ? probably not. :P
[12:05] <rhiakath> can you help me with a xbmc compilation i'm having some trouble with?
[12:05] <SirLagz> I can give it a shot..never compiled xbmc though
[12:05] * odonata (~bonk@unaffiliated/odonata) has joined #raspbian
[12:05] <BManojlovic> paste error message (not here)
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[12:07] <rhiakath> while compiling rbp.c, it basically complains about missing definitions for DISPMANX_<something_something>
[12:07] <rhiakath> a lot of DISPMANX defines seem to be missing...
[12:07] * cads (~m@adsl-74-160-16-161.asm.bellsouth.net) has joined #raspbian
[12:08] <rhiakath> strangely enough. if i google for dispamx, it seems to be from sdl
[12:08] <rhiakath> and i explicitly set the --disable-sdl configure flag
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[12:17] <BManojlovic> don't
[12:17] <BManojlovic> paste real error
[12:17] <BManojlovic> don't meta it
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[12:48] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[12:48] <bluebie> having some trouble updating.. I tried to dist upgrade and it froze trying to configure raspberrypi-bootloader.. now I can't use apt-get - it insists I need to configure the package with `dpkg --configure -a`, but that just freezes (using no CPU)
[12:49] <bluebie> feeling kind of directionless. Google says things like "erase the sd card and start over" which feels like a crummy solution
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[12:51] <rhiakath> @BManojlovic: http://pastebin.com/Bn4eJ6Q9
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[12:57] <rhiakath> @bluebie: SD cards ARE prone to messing up
[12:57] <rhiakath> just yesterday i messed one up, and the only solution was to completely erase it in Windows. ( argh )
[12:57] <rhiakath> linux, for some reason, kernel panicked every time i inserted the card in the reader...
[12:57] <bluebie> O_o
[12:58] <bluebie> soooo should I get a new card, or just erase this one?
[12:58] <BManojlovic> rhiakath: do you maybe miss broadcom stuff?
[12:59] <BManojlovic> or location of it
[13:00] <BManojlovic> as i can see on net that is only defined in their source so ...
[13:02] <rhiakath> @bmanojlovic. how can i make sure everything's found? I don't get a file not found error, or anything, so...
[13:02] <BManojlovic> heh
[13:03] <rhiakath> i'd think that some included header was supposed to define those, but it didn't. if it were a missing header, or a not located one, i'd have a file not found error ( which i don't )
[13:10] * nitdega_ is now known as nitdega
[13:13] <rhiakath> any idea how i can overcome this?
[13:13] <BManojlovic> no clue more than i have found
[13:16] <rhiakath> :(
[13:17] <BManojlovic> http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=10304&sid=5eeb524512a40721ab991e48b19b1978
[13:17] <BManojlovic> look at this
[13:17] <BManojlovic> did you add "by Beini ยป Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:46 pm " what was saying/suggesting?
[13:19] <rhiakath> i sure did
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[13:19] <BManojlovic> hm no clue in that case
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[13:21] <rhiakath> http://pastebin.com/C4hYWTWU
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[14:02] <rhiakath> ding ding ding. and another convert to raspberry + linux....
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[14:38] <brainwash> does anyone else encounter invisible drop down menus after switching workspaces (rpws)
[14:38] <brainwash> happens occasionally
[14:39] <brainwash> woops, false channel
[14:39] <brainwash> sorry
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[16:47] <keyvin> I'm trying to generate a gpg key on raspbian
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[16:47] <keyvin> I have been stuck at not enough entropy for the past 30 minutes
[16:48] <keyvin> despite pinging things, typing things, dd if=/dev/urandom of=./blah
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[16:48] <keyvin> any idea what is up?
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[17:39] <Odie_> keyvin: if you deplete /dev/urandom you consume entropy, not generate it
[17:39] <Odie_> or hmm
[17:40] <Odie_> sorry, not remembering which one was the pseudo generator
[17:40] <Odie_> migth be easier to create big key on faster computer
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[21:30] <pi5874> Hi, does anyone know, if its possible to use a usb hdd with the rpi without a hub?
[21:31] <PhotoJim> if it's self-powered.
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[21:33] <pi5874> thats obviously true, but a 2,5 inch harddisk (usb powered ) wont work?
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[21:33] <PhotoJim> not USB powered, no. the Pi's ports simply don't provide reliable enough power.
[21:33] <PhotoJim> it might work. but it probably won't. and you risk it being unreliable.
[21:34] <plugwash> On an early model Pi it definately won't work without power mods
[21:34] <PhotoJim> use a powered hub, and you'll be far safer. many USB hard drives expect two ports worth of power, also.
[21:34] <plugwash> on a later model Pi powered through the micro USB it may work but you may have issues with the main board polyfuses
[21:34] <sney> a low power ssd would be more likely to work than one that spins, also
[21:34] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[21:35] <plugwash> of course the simple soloution is to take a USB cable and splice a nice fat PSU to the power wires so it powers both the Pi and the drive
[21:35] <PhotoJim> or a well-powered hub :)
[21:35] <PhotoJim> which powers the Pi.
[21:36] <pi5874> ^a hub that powers the pi?
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[21:37] <PhotoJim> pi5874: you can buy a powered hub with a decent-sized PSU. plug a micro-USB cable into the hub and plug the other end into your Pi. Now the Pi has power too, with ony one power supply.
[21:37] <PhotoJim> And you have a few spare powered USB 2.0 ports.
[21:37] <PhotoJim> only
[21:38] <pi5874> ok. I see.
[21:38] * plugwash would only add an extra hub if he actually needed a hub
[21:39] <PhotoJim> it's nice to have.
[21:39] <PhotoJim> I use ports on the hubs on both of my Pis.
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[21:40] <pi5874> Actually I use a distinct usb power connector and no hub by now.
[21:41] <pi5874> Have you experience in using the pi (runing raspbian) as a NAS ?
[21:41] <PhotoJim> well, if you want a powered hub, you could get rid of that. or, do what plugwash suggested.
[21:41] <PhotoJim> I haven't used mine as a NAS. it can do the job but the throughput won't be massive.
[21:41] <PhotoJim> Ethernet and external disks are all on the same logical USB bus which will limit speeds somewhat.
[21:42] <PhotoJim> good enough for your purposes? Maybe. Easy enough to experiment.
[21:42] <pi5874> That's what I would expect. Do you reach 5 MByte/s ?
[21:43] <PhotoJim> I haven't tried. I'd think that that should be doable as long as you're using NFS. over Samba or sshfs or something else, it'll be slower.
[21:43] <PhotoJim> just a guess though.
[21:43] <pi5874> I would prefer samba for my win systems.
[21:44] <PhotoJim> it's a lot slower.
[21:44] <pi5874> As it needs cpu performance?
[21:44] <PhotoJim> it is more CPU-intensive to some degree, yes.
[21:45] <PhotoJim> NFS is very low in the overhead department. it's very old and very well supported and used. it's been open source for decades.
[21:45] <PhotoJim> I get 8.1 MB/s reading an NFS share from my server to my Pi. not sure you can count on the Pi doing so well as the server off USB. that was to /dev/null not to local SD.
[21:45] <sney> the initial connection between client and server is what lags on a small samba NAS. after that, it's fairly okay
[21:46] <sney> that initial handshake happens again if you've been sitting idle for a while too
[21:46] <sney> SMB itself is pretty low overhead too
[21:47] <pi5874> NFS sounds good, but there arent any good nfs clients for windows (as far as I know)?
[21:47] <PhotoJim> I don't know. I usually use Linux. I just use SMB on my Windows boots.
[21:48] <sney> there is a windows client, I don't know how good it is but it's probably survivable
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[21:49] <gnarface> pi5874: i thought windows supported NFS since like windows 2000, just like tcp/ip printing they just tried really hard to not let people know they'd added "unix compatibility features"
[21:50] <sney> yeah, it might be buried in there somewhere
[21:50] <sney> NT4 was actually allegedly posix
[21:50] <gnarface> pi5874: and yes, SMB is a *LOT* slower and like scp/sshfs its cpu-limited. nfs is not and you should be able to get very close to maximum throughput with it
[21:51] <gnarface> pi5874: with nfs your bottleneck on the pi will be the flash storage; with smb it will be the cpu
[21:51] <gnarface> pi5874: but luckily you can minimize the reliance on flash
[21:52] <gnarface> pi5874: nfs has its own issues but they're not performance-related
[21:52] <pi5874> So, Best performance could reached using a usb harddisk and a nfs share?
[21:52] <PhotoJim> gnarface: USB disk plus Ethernet network shares will be CPU-heavy too as they're both using the same virtual USB bus.
[21:52] <gnarface> pi5874: yes
[21:53] <PhotoJim> I only get 8.1 MB/s to /dev/null and that's just using a remote network share alone.
[21:53] <PhotoJim> the server can handle well over double that.
[21:53] <gnarface> pi5874: yes, but keep in mind the pi does share its ethernet bus with the usb bus so its still gonna stack up unfavorably compared to your average abandoned dell from 2002
[21:54] <PhotoJim> gnarface: heh, that describes my server well. Abandoned Dell.
[21:54] <gnarface> PhotoJim: the dell has a PCI bus
[21:54] <pi5874> Yes but the abandoned dell takes 100 watts and more.
[21:54] <sney> basically, it is possible to use a raspberry pi as a NAS but there are many better options.
[21:54] <Broken_Biscuit> Have you guys heard about this? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/10/intel_reveals_14nm_pc_declares_moores_law_alive_and_well/
[21:55] <gnarface> well, its a matter of how much you care about electricity
[21:55] <gnarface> if you're patient, the pi makes a great NAS
[21:55] <PhotoJim> gnarface: and mine has two CPUs.
[21:55] <PhotoJim> oh, mine takes 350 I think :)
[21:55] <gnarface> if you're not patient, expect to add 40$/month to your electricity bill
[21:56] <PhotoJim> my new Atom server is much more energy friendly but I still need to migrate all the services to it before I can retire the Dell.
[21:56] <sney> I have a netbook. its battery no longer holds a charge for longer than, about, 5 minutes. so it makes a great low power server. it's an irc bouncer, hosts some little things, and is a minor nas for things that I don't keep on my main laptop or my desktop. 13W max
[21:56] <sney> also, the 5 minute battery is kind of like having an UPS
[21:56] <gnarface> Broken_Biscuit: yea i heard about it. last time intel claimed they were gonna revolutionize low-powered computing with a low-powered chip (the atom) the motherboards for it ended up eating up all the power savings.
[21:56] <PhotoJim> yeah, not useless.
[21:56] <sney> the pi is a media client.
[21:57] <PhotoJim> although you can get new batteries if you want. I replaced the battery on my netbook a year ago... although I often run it on AC power when I do use it
[21:58] <pi5874> I am quite happy with a 5 watt system in my home. I dont want to spend more for a 1 user system with a 0.001% average usage.
[21:58] <gnarface> Broken_Biscuit: hint: when the figures on "power consumption at idle" don't include what the northbridge and southbridge are using at the same time, or realistic use cases about how hard it is to keep it in "low power mode" you should take everything you hear with a grain of salt
[21:59] <Broken_Biscuit> hey, just passing on info, I'm not carrying a banner for anyone
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[22:00] <gnarface> Broken_Biscuit: well, in that case, you should also be aware of: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/09/10/1558205/amd-reveals-roadmap-for-arm-and-x86-socs
[22:01] <gnarface> Broken_Biscuit: (amd is chomping at the bit now too - the same caveats apply, but AMD has a much more proven track record here)
[22:01] <Broken_Biscuit> Going to be keeping an eye on both for sure
[22:01] <pi5874> thank you for the information and pleasant talk. Good bye.
[22:02] <PhotoJim> good luck.
[22:02] <gnarface> pi5874: good luck!
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