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[0:57] <SURKITZ> thanks gnarface :)
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[1:00] <SURKITZ> Ok next problem I screwed up startx somehow, now when I bootup login at prompt then startx and nothing just blank screen, tried renaming Xauthority.backup and changing permissions on it to 777 but no joy. Any ideas on what steps to take to troubleshoot please anyone?
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[6:26] <SirLagz> has anyone tried using PS2->USB keyboard/mouse converters before ? My PS2 mouse isn't working =/
[6:28] <Jusii> I think there are 2 kinds of adapters. One type is keyboard specific, where the actual usb function is on the keyboard and the adapter is just dummy
[6:28] <Jusii> so you're sure you have correct adapter?
[6:31] <SirLagz> this is a 2 PS2 -> 1 USB plug one
[6:31] <SirLagz> Jusii: HP branded
[6:32] <Jusii> it came with the keyboard?
[6:32] <SirLagz> no
[6:33] <Jusii> then it might be, that it's not a correct one.
[6:33] <SirLagz> i got a second of mouse movement just then lol...
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[9:11] <m_a_ge> Hi guys! I bought a RPi yesterday and installed Rasbian. Everything works very well. Now I would like to install XBMC and also use RPi for torrent downloads storing them on usb hard drive. Is it possible? If so, how to do that?
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[10:50] <Laerik> hi
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[10:53] <Shaarad> Raspberry Pi can also act as a FM Transmitter! Awesome!
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[11:02] <Tachyon`> ?
[11:02] <Tachyon`> how?
[11:05] <Shaarad> By using GPIO 4 to transmit FM signals
[11:05] * student (d567c808@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.103.200.8) has joined #raspbian
[11:06] <Shaarad> See this hack: http://www.icrobotics.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Turning_the_Raspberry_Pi_Into_an_FM_Transmitter
[11:07] <Shaarad> Just a piece of wire in addition to a Pi is required to act as antenna. I tried even without wire and Pi was able to transmit signals inside single room. With antenna it transmits for around 50 feet
[11:07] <student> Hi! I have a raspberry pi hooked up to a TV through HDMI. Now is it possible to SSH to the same tty session that is on the TV? I have no keyboard to the Pi and don’t want to run X (like a vnc or something).
[11:08] <Shaarad> I don't think so student because SSH will open an independent tty session
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[11:10] <student> Ok, thanks Shaarad! So it is not possible to connect to an existing one? Can't seem to find info about it, only VNC solutions on the web :(
[11:11] <Shaarad> I don't know about vnc, but mostly it's not possible to connect to the same tty. Not 100% sure though because I am also playing with my Pi for only 2 months now :)
[11:12] <student> Ah, well thanks! :)
[11:12] * charlie111 (~charlie11@ti-225-26-25.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #raspbian
[11:14] <SirLagz> student: have a look at screen / tmux
[11:17] <student> SirLagz: thanks, I did. But then the pi would have to boot into screen some how?
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[15:00] <Dynetrekk> hi, I've got a problem with my raspbian based rpi server (256 MB model B). I'm using it as a backup server with a 2 TB external disk. after reboot, some of the disk permissions seems to be changed, so I suspect my config is incorrect somehow. how do I debug this behavior?
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[15:08] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: what does your fstab say? what does dmesg say?
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[15:10] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: what does "mount" say?
[15:10] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: do you mean the permissions of the mount point or of the stuff inside the filesystem?
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[15:13] <jihi> hi, anyone here uses usbip? I tried to compile the kernel module, but get an error "ERROR: could not insert 'usbip_host': Exec format error", when i trying to load the usbip-host module
[15:18] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: or just unmount it and fsck it and try again
[15:20] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: dmesg says the disk is found and mounted
[15:21] <Dynetrekk> /dev/sda1 /mnt/mybook ext4 defaults 0 2 # fstab
[15:21] <Dynetrekk> fsck, I did that recently and it was OK
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[15:21] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: stuff inside, the mount point seems fine - I can make and delete files, as well as read. most things work, but sometimes my backup script runs up against the wall because of permissions lacking the write bit
[15:22] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: i got nothing then. sounds like a problem with your backup script, or something else accessing them
[15:23] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: could be the case. I can't prove anything either way here and now
[15:23] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: I'm confused as to why this happens. I'm using rsnapshot for backups, btw
[15:26] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: never tried it, myself
[15:26] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: it runs over the network and so forth. maybe I should try a simpler setup
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[15:27] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: currently my rpi ssh's into my main box and sucks the essence out, placing everything on the external HDD
[15:27] * [gnubie] waves
[15:27] <Dynetrekk> using rsnapshot (which uses rsync)
[15:27] <Dynetrekk> maybe rsnapshot'ing locally and then cloning via rsync to the pi would be easier
[15:28] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: well if the uid#s dont' match that could be the issue....
[15:28] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: hm.... good question. no reason to assume they do, is there?
[15:28] <[gnubie]> i'm sure what i'm asking now is not the first time to hear from this channel or even on the web in general.
[15:28] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: I guess just the guid# is stored in ext4?
[15:28] <[gnubie]> unfortunately after searching, i still can't find the answer i'm looking for.
[15:29] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: you'd have to have added the users/groups in the exact same order, on identical debian releases, typically
[15:29] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: well my main box is Arch linux (more recent packages for daily use, is the idea
[15:29] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: if you use "ls -n" it lists numbers instead of names
[15:29] <[gnubie]> can anyone confirm if there is src deb of the kernel on the default raspbian?
[15:29] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: so I have to look for another setup then
[15:29] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: 'cause I can see the IDs don't match at all
[15:29] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: eh, not necessarily. its an easy thing to fix if you know what you're doing
[15:30] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: I don't
[15:30] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: i mean, you can change them with chmod/chown after-the fact
[15:30] <Dynetrekk> apparently
[15:30] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: sounds a bit finicky?
[15:30] <[gnubie]> $ uname -rm
[15:30] <[gnubie]> 3.10.25+ armv6l
[15:31] <[gnubie]> does anybody know where i can download the raspbian kernel?
[15:31] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: eh... maybe. i, personally don't like to backup files as files, i prefer to use tar to archive them and preserve the original user&group&permissions inside the archive, that way the permissions of the tar file itself can be sensible for the backup box
[15:31] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: that makes some sense. I'd like to use a program to do it for me, however
[15:32] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: its an easy task with a bash script
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[15:32] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: then I have to make sure it works. and it's over a regular internet connection between two residential locations
[15:32] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: for private pictures and the regular stuff
[15:32] <Dynetrekk> looked at Bacula, but it seemed over-engineered for my purposes
[15:33] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: i know amanda uses tar... it is probably over-engineered too
[15:33] <[gnubie]> hello..?
[15:33] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: I'll have a look at amanda
[15:34] <gnarface> [gnubie]: the answer is no
[15:34] <gnarface> [gnubie]: your question is wrong though
[15:35] <gnarface> [gnubie]: you'll become more confused if you characterize the pre-configured images released by the foundation as the "default" raspbian (its not useful to think of any of them as "default")
[15:35] <[gnubie]> gnarface: what part of my question is wrong? i am looking for the source kernel used in raspbian. english is not my first language and i would say it's my 4th language. but for sure, you have understand my question.
[15:36] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: is Amanda recommendable?
[15:36] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: at least as much as backula, from what i heard. like i said though, i just use ssh&tar in bash scripts i write myself... been doing this a lot longer than the people who wrote amanda and backula
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[15:37] <[gnubie]> gnarface: your last statement to me indeed confused me.
[15:37] <gnarface> [gnubie]: the foundation does NOT release source for those kernels. you have to install the raspbian kernel packaged in the distro (using apt-get) if you want one that has source available
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[15:39] <gnarface> [gnubie]: you installed raspbian from http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads right?
[15:39] <[gnubie]> gnarface: sorry, i still don't understand. which foundation? the raspberry pi foundation or the raspbian? i downloaded the raspbian image from raspberry pi's website then dd it to my sd card. basically, i'm using the kernel that was included in the image.
[15:39] <[gnubie]> gnarface: yes, i did.
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[15:40] <sney> when we say the foundation, we mean the raspberry pi foundation
[15:40] <sney> they don't really seem to grasp linux os best practices.
[15:40] <gnarface> [gnubie]: yes, that is correct. raspberrypi.org is the foundation that owns the hardware. they do not release source for the kernels on those images.
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[15:41] <gnarface> [gnubie]: this is the website for raspbian, the distro: http://raspbian.org/RaspbianInstaller
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[15:41] <gnarface> [gnubie]: i know its confusing. it confused me and english is my first language
[15:41] <Dynetrekk> gnarface: heh, I wish I had your experience :)
[15:43] <plugwash> <gnarface> [gnubie]: yes, that is correct. raspberrypi.org is the foundation that owns the hardware. they do not release source for the kernels on those images. <-- the source is available, it's just a bit of a pain to find
[15:43] <gnarface> it is now?
[15:43] <[gnubie]> gnarface: does it mean that the raspbian i downloaded from raspberry pi's website is "different" from the raspbian's website?
[15:44] <gnarface> [gnubie]: as bizarre as it may seem, raspberrypi.org is not the same organization as raspbian.org
[15:44] <gnarface> plugwash: can you tell [gnubie] where to get that source? i don't know where to get it
[15:44] <gnarface> plugwash: or would you recommend he start with the packaged kernel version as i would?
[15:44] <sney> it's on github. shiftplusone linked it to him in the other channel
[15:45] <sney> but the packaged kernel is still easier to deal with
[15:45] <[gnubie]> gnarface: i understand that they're not the same organisation. the former focuses on the hardware and the latter focuses on the software.
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[15:49] <plugwash> To find the kernel source that corresponds to a raspberry pi foundaiton kernel you need to look in /usr/share/doc/raspberrypi-bootloader/changelog.Debian.gz , in the first entry you will find something along the lines of "firmware as of 030082b403b"
[15:49] <plugwash> The hex number is a git commit ID for the raspberrypi/firmware repository on github
[15:49] <gnarface> ah, good to know...
[15:49] <plugwash> In that repo you can find a file called extra/git_hash
[15:50] <plugwash> Which is a git commit id for the raspberrypi/linux repo on github
[15:50] <shiftplusone> It's a quest!
[15:50] <[gnubie]> plugwash: good to know that. please go on..
[15:51] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: here's a hint: ssh backup@${HOST} "sleep 3; sudo tar --one-file-system -c -p -f - ${DIRS}" > ${ARCHIVE_DIRECTORY}/${ARCHIVE_FILE}
[15:52] <plugwash> (the raspberrypi/linux repo on github being where the raspberry pi foundation keeps their kernel source)
[15:52] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: (dumps ${DIRS} on remote ${HOST} into a tar file on the local host, assumes user backup exists and has sudo access to tar)
[15:52] <gnarface> Dynetrekk: (and preserves permissions regardless if the uid/gid mappings match)
[15:54] <[gnubie]> the latest kernel version from the upstream is 3.13.6. the kernel version from https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux is still on 3.10.x. are there any back ports particularly on the rtc related modules.
[15:54] <plugwash> [gnubie], there are branches in the raspberrypi/linux repo for more recent kenerl versions
[15:54] <[gnubie]> i mean, the last sentence should have a question mark instead of a period as it was supposed to be a question.
[15:57] <plugwash> https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/tree/rpi-3.13.y
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[16:00] <[gnubie]> plugwash: thank you. let me try this one.
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[16:01] <[gnubie]> just to confirm, raspbian is using the kernel from raspberry pi?
[16:02] <gnarface> [gnubie]: *that* raspbian image you have, is. its not *the* raspbian (there are others, and one that doesn't use the same kernel)
[16:03] <[gnubie]> gnarface: huh? why it "isn't" the raspbian?
[16:03] <plugwash> The raspbian project just builds a repository of packages, others (including the raspberry pi foundation) create images from it (we did create a few images ourselves in the past but are not currently doing so on an ongoing basis)
[16:04] <gnarface> [gnubie]: the image you got doesn't use the same kernel as the one that's packaged in the repos
[16:04] <plugwash> What kernel is included in an image is up to whoever creates the image, the raspberry pi foundation images use a kernel provided by the raspberry pi foundation as part of their raspberrypi-bootloader package
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[16:05] <gnarface> [gnubie]: the one in the raspian repos is older, if that's what you were worried about
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[16:06] <plugwash> We also have some kernels in the raspbian repository which we build by mashing together patches generated from the raspberry pi foundation's git repo with debian kernel packaging. They have the advantage of integrated better with debian tools but the disadvantage of getting updated far less frequently.
[16:06] <[gnubie]> so what makes it different on the raspbian from raspberry pi (which i downloaded) and the raspbian from raspbian?
[16:07] <gnarface> [gnubie]: other than being an older version in raspbian? the one in raspbian follows uses the apt/dpkg packaging system correctly.
[16:07] <[gnubie]> is that only about the kernel?
[16:07] <gnarface> i think so... plugwash ?
[16:08] <plugwash> The raspbian project produces a repository full of packages, the raspberry pi foundation take that repository add various bits of their own (kernel, firmware, various other bits and peices) and produce an image from it
[16:09] <gnarface> [gnubie]: so basically mostly, yes, but they also include a couple other related things (firmware, their custom bootloader i guess., that type of thing)
[16:10] <gnarface> [gnubie]: you can expect that your userland utils are all still gonna pretty much be the same as the ones in the raspbian repo
[16:10] <[gnubie]> why i am looking for the kernel source because i want to rebuild a kernel based on the latest version and produces my own deb kernel package. so i had the impression that the raspbian i downloaded was "debianized".
[16:11] <gnarface> [gnubie]: yes, which is unfortunate, because its not. it frustrates me too that they give the impression it is.
[16:11] <[gnubie]> is there any docs i can read what changes (diffs) on the raspbian from raspberry pi over raspbian from raspbian?
[16:11] * gnarface snorts
[16:12] <plugwash> You can find the scripts they use to build their images at github.com/asb/spindle
[16:12] * plugwash has just put together a debianised 3.13 package for raspbian jessie, just need to check if it boots before uploading it
[16:14] <[gnubie]> the raspbian from http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads should have some label or notes that the raspbian hosted are not basically the same with from the raspbian. it should mention what are the main differences between the two because people will be confused.
[16:14] <gnarface> [gnubie]: i agree with you.
[16:15] <[gnubie]> i'm surprised that they're not the same.
[16:16] <gnarface> here's the real one, but there is a problem with the fact its been abandoned. http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianInstaller
[16:16] * plugwash isn't sure he would call that any more "real"
[16:17] <gnarface> [gnubie]: so as mentioned on the second link, everyone uses this instead: https://github.com/hifi/raspbian-ua-netinst
[16:17] <gnarface> [gnubie]: (if they want a raspbian install with debianized kernel packages)
[16:17] <plugwash> That installer was a quick hack someone did that mpthompson hosted in a way that made it look far more official than it ever really was
[16:17] <hifi> you don't need to use debianized kernel packages though
[16:17] <gnarface> hifi: you don't, but some people like to
[16:18] <gnarface> some people like to have that option
[16:18] <hifi> they are broken and we disagree with plugwash who should fix it ;)
[16:18] <hifi> "broken", they work correctly according to what debian would do though
[16:19] <gnarface> well, in many ways most the foundation's firmwares are broken as well, so one way or another you're dodging issues
[16:19] <gnarface> it just depends on which ones are easier for you to dodge
[16:20] <gnarface> the confusion however isn't helping raspbian's case as a distro though
[16:20] <[gnubie]> gnarface: thanks for the link. i just want everything to be debianized. if the kernel is old, that's another story. people like me would like to rebuild a kernel and in the end will produce a .deb package of the kernel. how to build it is another problem which was my original intention in coming here in looking for the kernel before i knew that my raspbian is not really debianized.
[16:21] <gnarface> [gnubie]: i think its still using 3.2.x something, which isn't ancient
[16:22] <gnarface> [gnubie]: there is a raspbian jessie now though, which can be expected to get more updated debianized kernels going forward ... you have to ask plugwash how that's coming along
[16:22] <gnarface> plugwash: which kernel version is currently in raspbian jessie?
[16:23] <plugwash> Currently raspbian wheezy has 3.2, 3.6 and 3.10 packages available while raspbian jessie has 3.6, 3.10 and 3.12 packages available
[16:23] <gnarface> oh that's more selection since last time i checked
[16:23] <[gnubie]> gnarface: it doesn't matter if it's old. if everything is debianized, we can rebuild our own kernel from the upstream, patch it with raspberry pi's and using the current running /proc/config.gz as a basis for rebuilding the kernel. it may be hard but once it's done, you will have a shiny .deb kernel
[16:24] <plugwash> The 3.12 packages in raspbian jessie are likely to be replaced with 3.13 packages soon
[16:24] <plugwash> (once I check the damn thing actually boots)
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[16:25] <[gnubie]> where's that debianized raspbian that is now based on jessie?
[16:25] <gnarface> i assume you have to update to it from the wheezy one
[16:26] <gnarface> plugwash: there's no installation process for jessie yet, or is there? you still have to update from wheezy?
[16:26] <gnarface> or can you do it with hifi's installer?
[16:26] <shiftplusone> you can
[16:27] <shiftplusone> installer-config.txt release=jessie
[16:27] <gnarface> neat
[16:27] <plugwash> https://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/l/linux/
[16:28] <plugwash> linux_3.12.6-2+rpi1.dsc being the source package, binaries are there too (as are the 3.2 kernels for wheezy so look at the filenames before downloading)
[16:28] <[gnubie]> thanks for sharing info. i learned a lot from our discussions. :)
[16:29] <plugwash> the 3.6 and 3.10 kernels are in https://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/l/linux-3.6/ and https://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/l/linux-3.10/
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[16:36] <[gnubie]> guys, i have to go now. thank you for your help. i'll be back.. ;)
[16:36] * [gnubie] waves
[16:36] <gnarface> good luck...
[16:37] <[gnubie]> thanks gnarface..
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[17:54] <charlie111> Is it possible to change mount point when using usbmount?
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[18:30] <shiftplusone> What's apt-get for "just install this quiety, I will run dpkg-reconfigure later"? will -q do?
[18:32] <Jusii> it's not that easy, so that it would work with most of the packages
[18:38] <Jusii> shiftplusone: this is what I came up with some time ago http://pastebin.com/WB0uHHTC
[18:39] <gnarface> shiftplusone: i thought you set an apt preference to change the threshold of questioning to a higher level
[18:39] <Jusii> not sure about that 'leave unconfigured' part if thats possible, we needed unattended updates for some packages that wouldn't ask anything
[18:39] <Jusii> and all that was needed for that...
[18:42] <shiftplusone> Jusii, gnarface, thanks. I'll experiment with that once I get to that part.
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[18:47] <vagrantc> "dpkg-reconfigure debconf" and select noninteractive
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[18:48] <gnarface> Jusii: shiftplusone ^^^ this was what i was thinking of
[18:48] <Jusii> that option should actually be called mostlynoninteractive ;)
[18:48] <vagrantc> "apt-get -qq" will also reduce the verbosity of apt. (yes, two "q")
[18:49] <gnarface> well, you can instead use preseeding to pass specific configuration options in for a similarly unattended installation manner but with the ability to customize your answers, the only problem being preseeding is janky
[18:49] <vagrantc> that would only affect debconf questions.
[18:49] <Jusii> but for new packages i'm not 100% sure, but if it used when upgrading, apt can still ask you questions
[18:49] <vagrantc> if it's dpkg conffile prompts, there's another setting for that
[18:50] <vagrantc> the unattended-upgrades package handles most of that stuff sanely
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[18:53] <vagrantc> apt doesn't ask many questions at all, but dpkg or package postinst (and similar) scripts may
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[19:19] <shiftplusone> I am writing a script which makes a NOOBS archive (or optionally raw image) of Raspbian with XFCE. It will only have minimal modifications and will have the Raspbian kernel installed. Wondering if anyone has any suggestions or pet peeves they want to voice on this topic.
[19:19] <shiftplusone> (in other words, I am asking what not to do)
[19:25] <shiftplusone> Well, I might hear about it later then =D
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[19:32] <fangfufu> is there anyway to mix binaries from debian armel in raspbian?
[19:32] <fangfufu> in another word, is there anyway to enable multiarch?
[19:33] <sney> it's not a supported configuration. there might be a way to make it work, but raspbian and debian are barely different in the first place. is there something you're looking for?
[19:34] <fangfufu> i want to run ffmpeg from deb-multimedia repository
[19:35] <fangfufu> there are lot of debian armel prebuilt stuff on the internet
[19:35] <fangfufu> i want to run them
[19:35] * gnarface shudders at the very thought of encoding video on a 700mhz arm chip
[19:36] <sney> heh. I really doubt any of those 3rd party packages are multiarch-aware.
[19:36] <fangfufu> oh you never know
[19:36] <fangfufu> i basically want to use get_iplayer
[19:36] <ball> shiftplusone: Will you do a variant with just the window manager from Xfce? ;-)
[19:37] <shiftplusone> ball, once I've tested it out, I'll throw it on github. It will be very easy to modify to install whatever you want.
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[19:40] <vagrantc> w 12
[19:40] <ball> shiftplusone: That's jolly decent of you.
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[19:42] <ball> hello vagrantc
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[20:18] <shiftplusone> Jusii, thanks, you're black magic worked for the install.
[20:20] <Jusii> shiftplusone: great
[20:21] <Jusii> you're black magic, second best compliment ever
[20:22] <ppq> what's the best?
[20:22] <Jusii> best was from kid next door awhile back, drove my black sports car in front of our door and he yelled 'dad dad, look, it's knight rider!'
[20:23] <ppq> \o/
[20:23] <shiftplusone> Jusii, lol. Apparently I type like a 13 year old on youtube now.
[20:24] <Jusii> haha
[20:24] <shiftplusone> obviously, *your
[20:24] <Jusii> and on that day, I joined HoffSpace, don't know if it's alive anymore...
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These logs were automatically created by RaspbianLogBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.