#raspbian IRC Log


IRC Log for 2014-04-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:12] * Eurbus (~Eurbus@2600:1011:b12a:378a:3029:daa8:3198:65ba) has joined #raspbian
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[1:05] <kenny> Can anyone tell me if btrfs is being built in to the kernel?
[1:07] <gnarface> kenny: that's something pretty easy to check yourself
[1:09] <gnarface> kenny: i don't actually know, but if you're having trouble finding support for it, then its probably safe to assume its not. all i know is that support for *most* of the filesystems available in the mainstream linux kernel were left out (for various reasons)
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[1:12] <kenny> gnarface: Thanks, but I don't have an install, I'm running arch on mine currently. I guess I could download the deb, but it'd be easier of there was a github repo with a .config I could check.
[1:15] <gnarface> kenny: there's a github repo
[1:15] * Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspbian
[1:15] <- *Muzer* Muzer is currently away, try again later
[1:17] <gnarface> kenny: sorry, i don't have the exact url (i think its private and not actually on github.com, maybe?) but if you hang around for a while, there are people here who know where it is
[1:19] <kenny> gnarface: cool, I'll try to find it. Thanks again.
[1:20] <gnarface> kenny: yea sorry i actually had the url at one point but my scrollback history doesn't go back that far
[1:22] <kenny> I suspect they're probably using https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-3.10.y/arch/arm/configs/bcmrpi_defconfig (or a different kernel version of the same path)
[1:22] <kenny> which has btrfs as a module instead of built in.
[1:22] <kenny> So I guess that's my answer.
[1:23] <kenny> I wonder why it's not included, especially with the problems people have with SD card corruption.
[1:24] <gnarface> most people use ext4
[1:24] <gnarface> (i think)
[1:24] <gnarface> but lots of people disable journaling using it
[1:24] <gnarface> SD cards are notorious for poor wear-leveling
[1:25] <gnarface> (which journaling filesystems tend to be a worst-case scenario for)
[1:25] <gnarface> so anyone doing anything remotely serious on the SD card either buy very expensive SD cards, or keep lots of backups anyway
[1:25] <kenny> I agree, almost all are ext4. I had to wipe cards multiple times before I started using btrfs on mine, haven't had a problem since.
[1:26] <kenny> You can convert ext4 (and 3) directly to btrfs, so if it was built in it'd be an easy tutorial for people to convert.
[1:27] <gnarface> but wouldn't it just kill the cheap SD cards as fast?
[1:28] <gnarface> or is btrfs better about that than ext4 with journaling enabled?
[1:28] <gnarface> me, i just disable journaling on ext4 and keep frequent backups (i have a usb sd card reader for my desktop)
[1:29] <kenny> the issue (for me at least) never seemed to be the card dying completely. It'd always work after a reformat. It was just data corruption possible because the card lied about saying it actually saved data.
[1:29] <gnarface> huh
[1:29] <kenny> One time I had files that were multiple PB in a directly (on an 8GB card)
[1:29] <kenny> *directory
[1:29] <gnarface> damn
[1:30] <gnarface> i guess there may be a lot of strange fringe behavior depending on the card
[1:30] <gnarface> i almost entirely buy from a couple specific brants
[1:30] <gnarface> *brands
[1:30] <gnarface> and i always count 30 seconds after shutdown before i unplug the pi
[1:31] <gnarface> but if btrfs eliminates problems that's certainly an argument in its favor
[1:31] <kenny> even those can be fakes though. At least with btrfs it would reduce some of these issues (and maybe cause a whole different set that I just haven't run in to yet :)
[1:32] <gnarface> well, i would be very curious to find out whether btrfs somehow improves wear over ext4 with journaling enabled
[1:32] <gnarface> but i know that you could also just buy certain very expensive SD cards made to take it
[1:32] <gnarface> made specifically to "take the punishment"
[1:33] <kenny> I thought the microcontroller in the sd card handled wear leveling, or is that just SSD drives?
[1:33] <gnarface> well, i could be wrong, but i was under the impression that with both SD cards and SSD drives, it depends entirely on the brand/model
[1:34] <gnarface> with SSD drives its becoming a marketing necessity, but with SD cards (especially the cheap ones) its still very common to have dumb wear leveling that assumes the only filesystem ever used on it will be fat32
[1:34] <gnarface> at least, so i thought
[1:34] <kenny> I don't know enough about either to know. I know that a search for 'sd corrupt' on the RPi forums returns over 1400 posts :)
[1:35] <gnarface> yea, but like you also stated, many of those issues may not have anything to do with hardware failure
[1:35] <kenny> I could see that with SD cards. Things like a camera woudl just write to the whole thing, then erase the whole thing.
[1:35] * Guest29061 is now known as vincent_c
[1:35] <gnarface> myself, if i was going to do anything high-traffic with my PI, i would at least put the high-traffic disk data on a nfs-mounted remote partition on a real harddrive
[1:36] <gnarface> right now i mostly use mine as a media server
[1:37] <Dagger> I might have some comment re: btrfs, if I had managed to set CONFIG_BTRFS_FS to y instead of Y
[1:37] <Dagger> instead I'm recompiling... again. ;_;
[1:37] <gnarface> but if i was gonna say, replace my personal email server with one, i'd almost certainly put the email storage on an nfs mount to a real spinning-platter harddrive on another one of my machines
[1:37] <kenny> I have a 2TB WD My Passport hooked up to mine, with hardware crypto. That's where I keep all the actual files. The SD card issues are just a pain to rebuilt, but I guess I should just be doing backups
[1:38] <gnarface> you should be doing nightly backups anyway, IMO
[1:38] <gnarface> with flash ram its just prescient
[1:38] <gnarface> since its not known for the type of quality control that harddrives have achieved
[1:38] <kenny> completely agree. The drive is backed up to another of the same drives. It's only the SD that's not currently backed up.
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[1:40] <kenny> Dagger: doing a cross-compile, or on the actual Pi?
[1:40] <Dagger> on the Pi
[1:40] <Dagger> turnaround time for builds is not so great
[1:42] <gnarface> 12 hours i heard
[1:43] <kenny> cool, I recently was trying to get a 3.14 kernel going on my cubieboard and finally got around to setting up a cross-compiler. I should have done it forever ago, it's much much faster.
[1:43] <Dagger> more like 22
[1:43] <gnarface> ouch!
[1:43] <gnarface> might depend on the SD card some?
[1:43] <Dagger> goes down to 15 with ccache, I think
[1:43] <Dagger> yeah, that's likely. random cheap card here
[1:44] <kenny> good test for everything though :)
[1:44] <Dagger> though 8 hours of that is building manpages, which is CPU-bound
[1:44] <gnarface> he
[1:44] <gnarface> heh
[1:44] <gnarface> i wonder how much of that you could offload by using distcc
[1:46] <kenny> between multiple Pi's? Because otherwise once you set up the cross environment you might as well just build there.
[1:47] <Dagger> the manpages are all xsltproc, which I doubt distcc supports
[1:47] <gnarface> (with like, 4ghz amd64 systems in the cluster)
[1:47] <Dagger> unless you meant the whole build, in which case I guess distcc would asymptotically approach the 15 hour ccache-backed build?
[1:48] <gnarface> i don't know
[1:48] <gnarface> i just vaguely recall someone mentioning distcc is a good alternative to cross-building
[1:49] <gnarface> i was surprised too, because i didn't know that distcc could even do different arches at all
[1:49] <Dagger> I'm assuming ccache caches exactly the same set of compiler invocations that distcc can offload
[1:49] <gnarface> it might, i dunno
[1:50] <Dagger> in which case doing the build via distcc would be, with an infinitely fast distcc host, about the same speed as pulling the build from cache
[1:50] <gnarface> what i really wanted to do was just setup a 4ghz virtual arm system with the same arch as the pi
[1:51] <gnarface> but disappointingly i was informed that the qemu code that can emulate the pi is hardcoded to 500mhz and 250MB of ram
[1:51] <gnarface> which is a serious bummer
[1:51] <gnarface> someone outta fix that
[1:51] <gnarface> cause cross-compiling is janky and poorly documented
[1:53] <Dagger> I discovered a thing earlier today: http://sentryytech.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/faster-compiling-on-emulated-raspberry.html
[1:53] <Dagger> specifically the plan B section
[1:53] <Dagger> I didn't test how fast it was, but `top` showed 4 cores in the chroot
[1:54] * mdorenka (~mdorenka@x2f6587c.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:56] <Dagger> though it was also armv7 rather than armv6 or something... I needed to reboot out of Linux too quickly to do much poking around, but being able to run ARM binaries transparently like that is just mad
[1:56] <gnarface> hhmmmmm
[1:58] <gnarface> this defies what i've been told
[1:58] <gnarface> but it certainly looks compelling
[1:58] <gnarface> the pi is definitely armv6 not v7
[1:58] <Dagger> well, it might be because it's a different CPU (and I don't see any obvious way to change the CPU it uses)
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[1:59] <gnarface> if this could compile stuff faster for the pi using armv6 with hardware floating support (despite saying itself is armv7) then that is awesome
[1:59] <gnarface> that would be a great trick
[1:59] * mdorenka (~mdorenka@x2f6710c.dyn.telefonica.de) has joined #raspbian
[2:00] <gnarface> if it just compiles armv6 stuff without hardware float support though
[2:00] <gnarface> then you might as well just run debian armel
[2:00] * TDog (~chatzilla@67-1-101-128.tcso.qwest.net) has joined #raspbian
[2:01] <Dagger> I test-compiled bwm-ng inside that chroot and it's linked to /lib/ld-linux-armhf.so.3 according to `ldd`
[2:01] <Dagger> which I guess means it's hf?
[2:01] <gnarface> what i'm really curious about though is the reasoning behind that apparently hardcoded ram and cpu limitation for arm1176 on qemu.... if someone would just fix that we'd be in heaven
[2:02] <gnarface> Dagger: i dunno. does it run on your pi?
[2:02] <Dagger> yep
[2:02] <gnarface> hmm. promising
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[2:02] <gnarface> very promising
[2:02] <Dagger> I literally took the SD card out of the Pi, stuck it in my desktop and did that voodoo chroot thing from the blog post
[2:02] <Dagger> then stuck it back into the Pi
[2:03] <gnarface> now i wish whoever told me there was literally no possible faster way to do it could read this conversation and weigh in and tell me why they were apparently wrong
[2:03] <Dagger> so I was building using the compilers/toolchain/whatever from Raspbian itself
[2:04] <gnarface> Dagger: i mean, if this is for real, this is groundbreaking news that could be revolutionary to the raspbian effort... build times and cross-compiler incompatibilities are a real problem currently
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[2:05] <Dagger> assuming it's actually faster
[2:06] <Dagger> and there's not some other big major obvious issue that I'm missing because I don't know what I'm doing :p
[2:06] <gnarface> we;;
[2:06] <gnarface> well, that's possibly a big assumption
[2:06] <gnarface> so what i'd suggest is next try to compile something people have heard of that has a relatively large and known compile-time ballpark
[2:06] * mike_t (~mike@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:07] <gnarface> like xorg or the kernel
[2:07] <gnarface> or even vlc
[2:07] * Datalink (~Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:08] <gnarface> with stuff like that, even a 20% increase in speed will have a marked and notable difference in time
[2:08] <gnarface> and if it also still works right, it will be in theory fairly easy to also verify its working at full speed
[2:09] <gnarface> and if its actually that much faster, you should probably tell plugwash
[2:09] <Dagger> testing is a bit of a pain for me, I'd have to reboot into Linux and then I can't really use my desktop for much
[2:10] <gnarface> bummer
[2:10] <gnarface> 2014 not using linux for your desktop
[2:10] <gnarface> i look down in pity
[2:10] <Dagger> >2014 and not supporting 2D acceleration in X
[2:10] * preincarnated (~kvirc@ has joined #raspbian
[2:10] <Dagger> well, no, I lie, I can get 2D acceleration
[2:11] <Dagger> if I sacrifice the ability to move windows between monitors...
[2:11] <gnarface> i guess i ... absolved myself to just restricting my hardware choice to stuff that's not got crap support in linux
[2:11] <gnarface> it helped that at the time it was the same hardware i'd have bought for linux anyway
[2:11] <gnarface> i feel your pain though
[2:12] <gnarface> ever considered some virtualization solution?
[2:12] <gnarface> parallels or virtualbox or even vmware i think can be run on windows and have linux inside them?
[2:12] <gnarface> (not that i've tried)
[2:12] <Dagger> VMs just don't work well for anything graphical in my experience
[2:12] * Eurbus (~Eurbus@ip72-208-106-129.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspbian
[2:13] <Dagger> you can use them, but... eh. not for a main desktop
[2:13] <Dagger> I'd love to do something with Xen's VGA passthrough
[2:13] <gnarface> i mean, performance-wise, you're right... they tend to be a huge pain in the ass
[2:13] <Dagger> if you give a graphics card directly to a VM, it should be native performance
[2:13] <gnarface> but just for testing functionality they should be usable...
[2:14] <gnarface> i've even heard that with some high-end cards you can get close to native performance with the right configurations though
[2:14] <Dagger> but that needs an IOMMU, and you need specific CPUs for that, and Intel are bastards and disable IOMMU support on their overclockable CPUs, so I have to pick between IOMMU and overclocking when buying a CPU
[2:14] <gnarface> you just throw out your sandbox safety doing so...
[2:15] <gnarface> oh you buy intel
[2:15] <Dagger> what choice do you have these days? :(
[2:15] <gnarface> amd is great
[2:15] <gnarface> its cheap
[2:15] <gnarface> its fast
[2:15] <gnarface> the boards are good
[2:15] <Dagger> if you don't need single-threaded performance, yeah
[2:16] <gnarface> at +4ghz per core... honestly i don't anymore
[2:16] * Graflan (~Graflan@c-98-247-117-165.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #raspbian
[2:16] <gnarface> somewhere around 1.6ghz, machines stopped needing more horsepower for anything i was doing
[2:16] <gnarface> now days its just all some existential arms race
[2:17] <gnarface> i only use intel stuff when my clients buy intel...
[2:18] <Dagger> I'd prefer AMD too (I'm on a Phenom II 720 here), but the things it's too slow for are all limited by per-core performance
[2:18] <gnarface> but you should know that nvidia's linux driver has a feature they call "twinview" which *does* allow you to configure multiple monitors with recent model cards and you can drag stuff between monitors with no performance penalty... just fyi
[2:18] <Dagger> you can use XRandR for that on ATI/AMD cards too
[2:19] <Dagger> buuut... only on one GPU
[2:19] <gnarface> well how many monitors do you need? all the nvidia cards have at least 2 these days
[2:19] <Dagger> I have two VGA monitors (plus one HDMI) and my GPU only has one VGA out, so I need to use the onboard card for an extra VGA output
[2:20] <gnarface> (phenom II 975 black here, with a 1600-1800MHz ram mobo... so there may be a material difference there)
[2:20] <Dagger> I guess I could solve this easily by buying a new monitor with DVI input, but meh
[2:20] <gnarface> no i think you're making the problem harder than it has to be
[2:20] <gnarface> they sell adapters
[2:20] <gnarface> most nvidia cards come with them
[2:21] <Dagger> ah, no, those don't help
[2:21] <gnarface> i think all you need is a nvidia card later than the 500 gx series
[2:21] <Dagger> the card only has one digital-to-analog converter
[2:21] <Dagger> so you can only hook one VGA monitor up to it
[2:21] <gnarface> i was using vga monitors with my nvidia 560Ti up until shortly after christmas
[2:21] <gnarface> two of the
[2:21] <gnarface> two of them
[2:21] <gnarface> *
[2:22] <gnarface> mind, you, i'm not saying its something you should be blamed for not being able to get working and assuming it can't work
[2:22] <Dagger> I have an ATI 6850... up until the 5xxx series you could use two VGA monitors, but you can only use one with 6xxx and up
[2:22] <gnarface> but i've done it and i could (and happily would) walk you through it
[2:22] <gnarface> well
[2:22] <gnarface> then ati is dumb
[2:23] * preincarnated (~kvirc@ Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[2:23] <gnarface> their linux driver support has always been notable only in the sense that its consistently worse than even nvidia's
[2:23] <gnarface> and that's saying something
[2:24] <Dagger> it makes some amount of sense: it saves money, and who uses VGA these days?
[2:24] <gnarface> heh, meh
[2:24] <Dagger> except I have piles of 17" VGA-only LCDs sitting around that I'd like to use
[2:24] <gnarface> like i said, i did up until early this year
[2:24] <gnarface> i'm tellin ya
[2:24] <gnarface> switch to nvidia
[2:24] <gnarface> i'll help you with the driver issues
[2:24] <gnarface> they're managable
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[2:25] <gnarface> ati's drivers have (with the exception of a brief period around the late 90's when they tried to pretend they were open source friendly) been served up with obvious contempt
[2:25] <gnarface> nvidia still doesn't quite "get it" but they've stayed on the same track for long enough their plan finally is coming into focus
[2:26] <gnarface> multiple monitor support works (and has worked better, and faster, than xinerama)
[2:26] <gnarface> for... a long time now
[2:26] <gnarface> they'll probably NEVER support SLI on linux for gaming
[2:26] <gnarface> but eh, you can't have everything
[2:26] <Dagger> my problem isn't actually with the ATI drivers. if you want dragging between monitors, you need either XRandR or Xinerama
[2:26] <Dagger> Xinerama doesn't do acceleration and XRandR doesn't do multiple monitors
[2:27] <Dagger> er
[2:27] <Dagger> Xinerama doesn't do acceleration and XRandR doesn't do multiple GPUs*
[2:27] <Dagger> disclaimer: my info is a year or two out of date. I think XRandR may actually do multiple GPUs now (but it may require driver support, in which case my problem may well now be with the ATI drivers)
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[2:33] <gnarface> Dagger: believe it or not, with a nvidia card, you can use TwinView (their native replacement for Xinerama) which *does* allow dragging between monitors, as long as its on the same card (and all their cards like i said have at least 2 simultaneously usable ports since... half a decade ago at least)
[2:34] <gnarface> Dagger: its so slick actually it even allows you to have hardware-accelerated windows cross both display borders with no drop in performance on either side
[2:35] <gnarface> Dagger: its *so slick* in fact it allows you to have both displays active at actually *zero* performance loss compared to just 1 display
[2:36] <gnarface> Dagger: hard to believe, i know, but completely true. now, if you need THREE displays, you might be screwed.
[2:36] <gnarface> Dagger: but there's no reason to punish yourself like that between two of them
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[2:39] <Dagger> it's hard to find info, but I think modern Geforce cards only have one DAC on them too, so I'd be in the same situation with a Nvidia card as I would be now
[2:40] <Dagger> at any rate, you can see why I'm not using Linux
[2:40] <Dagger> I boot XP and the monitors work
[2:41] <gnarface> fair enough
[2:41] <Dagger> (there's fun other issues on Linux too, like the toolkits that can't comprehend monitors of different sizes -- I once had a menu render a few inches from the menubar, with the top of the menu in line with the top of my smallest monitor)
[2:42] <gnarface> well you should know i'm not just a user, i'm a pusher
[2:43] <gnarface> you find yourself with some spare time and a spare nvidia card made in the last 3-5 years, i'll help you bring it up to its full potential using painstaking testing, debugging, and configuration research i've accumulated about xorg/xfree86 and their driver over the past decade or so
[2:43] <Dagger> or the way you move a mouse into the corner of the screen, and it leaps a few inches down to fit onto the next monitor. on Windows, you can actually put the mouse into the corner
[2:43] <gnarface> some of these issues you talk about are more something the window manager is to blame for
[2:44] <gnarface> you can easily fix them typically by switching window managers (or if you're lucky, just customizing the window manager you have)
[2:44] <Dagger> yeah, and/or they depend on XRandR vs Xinerama
[2:44] <gnarface> again, not relevant if using nvidia twinview
[2:45] <gnarface> which is, (sadly, because its entirely proprietary and closed-source) really awesome
[2:45] <Dagger> it's just... y'know. I /could/ spend ages tracking down the bugs in Xorg/XRandR/Qt/whatever and fixing them, but I'd like to use my desktop sometime
[2:48] <gnarface> yea
[2:48] <gnarface> i get it
[2:48] <gnarface> totally
[2:48] <gnarface> what i'm trying to tell you is that i've already done all that work
[2:48] <gnarface> and i'll impart this information to you for free
[2:48] <gnarface> cause i'm just that awesome
[2:48] <gnarface> but this isn't on topic for this channel technically
[2:48] <Dagger> and I'm just trying to get a good rant off ;)
[2:50] <Dagger> but thank you for offering, and if I get an Nvidia card and this stuff still isn't fixed by then, I'll come and poke you
[2:50] <Dagger> on a more on-topic note, I'll need to reboot into Linux again to convert my SD card to btrfs, so I'll try and test compiling something when I do
[2:52] <gnarface> alright, well, i'm leaving shortly to eat dinner
[2:53] <gnarface> but i never log off unless there is a network outage
[2:53] <Dagger> not entirely sure how I'll get a useful speed comparison without also setting up qemu the same way Raspbian does though...
[2:53] <gnarface> well, if you flag my name in your messages to this channel about it, i should get them later when i come back
[2:54] <gnarface> like i said, i never log off unless there is a network outage
[2:54] <gnarface> so i'd be curious to know what you discover
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[7:30] <bauruine> could someone please give me the download link for the raspbian images.
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[7:34] <ShorTie> http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
[7:34] <bauruine> i found that. and can't find a download link.
[7:34] * Datalink (Datalink@unaffiliated/datalink) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[7:37] <gnarface> lol ascii art
[7:37] <bauruine> i try to show someone how awesome the rpi is...
[7:37] <gnarface> ShorTie: you didn't look at that today, did you
[7:37] <bauruine> till now it's just a joke -.-
[7:38] <gnarface> bauruine: well you probably picked a bad day of the year to show them
[7:38] <gnarface> bauruine: lol
[7:39] <gnarface> bauruine: here, let me save you from their irresponsibly and persistently silly behavior: http://raspbian.org/RaspbianInstaller
[7:39] <gnarface> bauruine: in particular, http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=50310
[7:39] <gnarface> bauruine: lol sorry, rather actually https://github.com/hifi/raspbian-ua-netinst
[7:40] <gnarface> bauruine: (ignore the second link, i didn't realize they'd also ruined the forums too)
[7:40] * heinrikter (~quassel@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:41] <gnarface> bauruine: i am here for the next couple hours and i can help
[7:41] <bauruine> i will use another image.
[7:41] <bauruine> no time for this shit on the 2.
[7:42] <bauruine> gnarface, thanks anyway
[7:42] <gnarface> bauruine: no skin off my back. i'm not officially affiliated with either site. in fact several of them hate me.
[7:42] * gnarface shrugs
[7:42] <gnarface> bauruine: good luck to yo
[7:42] <gnarface> u
[7:43] <bauruine> yay archive.org and google ftw. http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/raspberrypi/NOOBS/images/NOOBS-2014-01-09/
[7:44] <gnarface> i honestly wouldn't recommend that one either unless you like preconfigured installs
[7:44] <gnarface> (which i don't, but maybe you do)
[7:45] <gnarface> i guess it largely depends on whether your friend is a debian user or a windows user
[7:46] <bauruine> i just use it a few minutes to show a apprentice what a rpi can do.
[7:47] <gnarface> ah
[7:47] <gnarface> well then you probably chose correctly
[7:47] <gnarface> good luck!
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[8:42] <zGrr> moin :)
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[10:19] <whiter> hi. if i change in apt source list wheezy repo to jessie how does it effect on my system?
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[10:45] <ppq> there's an unnegligible chance of destroying the consistency of your package management
[10:45] <ppq> and it may update your system to jessie if you're lucky and/or know what you are doing
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[10:58] <whiter> what positive changes will entail that update?
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[11:04] <noocode> hello people
[11:04] <noocode> i try to install java but i get 503 service unavaiable
[11:04] <noocode> are there any mirrors for apt.conf out there?
[11:05] * ascii_ch (~quassel@209-226.197-178.cust.bluewin.ch) has joined #raspbian
[11:05] <diederik> noocode: how are you trying to install java and can you pastebin your sources.list?
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[11:06] <noocode> deb http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy main contrib non-free rpi
[11:06] <noocode> thats what inside
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[11:06] <noocode> and i added http://nopaste.info/18ce77bc2c.html
[11:06] <ShorTie> raspbian.org is on the fritz, don't know if it affects that or not
[11:06] <noocode> now the file looks like the nopaste without the first line
[11:07] <noocode> i don't know what to do
[11:07] <noocode> W: Failed to fetch http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-armhf/Packages 503 Service Unavailable [IP: 80]
[11:07] <noocode> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[11:07] <noocode> this is the error i'm having after trying to update
[11:08] <diederik> mirrordirector sometimes redirects to a mirror which isn't functioning (properly), trying it again (sometimes a couple of times) usually fixes it
[11:08] <noocode> its pointing all the time to this mirror
[11:08] <noocode> can i use another mirror?
[11:10] <diederik> yes, you can. Pick one from http://raspbian.org/RaspbianMirrors and put that instead of the mirrordirector one (easiest way is to comment that line out)
[11:11] * mpmc is now known as mpmc[BNC4FREE]
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[11:12] <noocode> do i have to add deb at first and main contrib non-free rpi at the end?
[11:13] <noocode> 33% [Connecting to archive.raspberrypi.org (] why is this happening? i commented it out?
[11:14] <diederik> yes, entries in sources.list are like "deb <archiveurl> wheezy main [contrib non-free]"
[11:15] <diederik> did you do apt-get/aptitude update after you commented it out?
[11:15] <noocode> yes i do
[11:16] <noocode> yes i did :)
[11:17] <noocode> this makes no sense
[11:17] <noocode> everytime ..... 503
[11:17] <diederik> can you post again your _current_ sources.list? Note that there's a difference between raspberrypi.org and raspbian.org
[11:17] <noocode> omg
[11:18] <noocode> i think i have to edit raspi.list right?
[11:18] <diederik> raspi.list?
[11:18] <whiter> http://www.savagehomeautomation.com/projects/raspberry-pi-installing-oracle-java-development-kit-jdk-170u.html
[11:18] <noocode> /etc/apt/sources.d/raspi.list
[11:21] <noocode> ok got it
[11:21] <diederik> Why not use the openjdk-7-jdk package from the raspbian archive?
[11:21] <noocode> thats what i did
[11:21] <noocode> did not work for me
[11:21] <noocode> now i use another mirror
[11:21] * grulfen (~grulfen@h-60-99.a163.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspbian
[11:21] <noocode> hope this will help
[11:22] <diederik> ah wait, it was whiter who posted the link. nvm
[11:24] <noocode> wtf E: Unable to locate package oracle-java7-jdk
[11:24] <grulfen> Does anyone know where can i get the official raspbian image now? The raspberry pi site seems to still have their new fancy look without the download site
[11:25] <diederik> noocode: it's called openjdk-7-jdk ...
[11:25] <noocode> so i have to blame this tutorial http://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi/Unifi-controller-for-arm-processor-Linux/td-p/299859/page/2
[11:25] <noocode> :D
[11:26] <noocode> thanks diederik
[11:26] <diederik> yw
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[11:28] <noocode> yw?
[11:29] <diederik> you're welcome
[11:29] <noocode> :-)
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[11:35] <whiter> diederik: because i can use jdk-8
[11:35] <whiter> that way
[11:38] <diederik> whiter: you may want to keep an eye out for http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=27805
[11:39] <diederik> The first thing I noticed about the page you linked to was that it referred to the soft-float image ... which you likely don't want/have
[11:42] <diederik> (but the oracle download page lists a download for the Hard Float ABI)
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[11:46] <whiter> thanks a lot. i'll check it
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[11:50] <diederik> note that various links aren't working anymore (probably due to the site redesign). If that's the case, make sure the URL starts with http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/
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[12:03] <noocode> where is the oracle java home dir? how can i find it
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[12:35] <diederik> noocode: /usr/lib/jvm
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[13:09] <sreenad> Hello can anyboidy pls help me in getting Rasbian source?
[13:11] * heday_ (~heday@2e40bdce.skybroadband.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:11] <gordonDrogon> all of it, or individual packages?
[13:11] * mr-jack (~mr-jack@unaffiliated/mr-jack) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:12] <sreenad> I want to get the source code of the kernel. Packeages menas, what?
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[13:20] <ioudas> correct me if im wrong but does raspbian support WOL for usb wireless does it
[13:20] <ioudas> or is that specific to the adapter
[13:21] <sreenad> can anyboy help me in getting Rasbian source code ?
[13:24] <gordonDrogon> sreenad, sorry - I was afk, but the code is all online. just google.
[13:25] <gordonDrogon> th ekernel is standard Linux kernel with raspbian/foundation patches - they're all online. the userland code is debian.
[13:25] <gordonDrogon> it's all online too.
[13:25] <diederik> apt-get source linux-image -3.10-3-rpi ?
[13:25] <gordonDrogon> ioudas, since the Pi can't sleep, Wake on anything doesn't really make any sense...
[13:26] <diederik> (minus the space after linux-image)
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[13:30] <sreenad> gordan, Is this the one I am looking for? Could you pls check this link. https://github.com/raspberrypi/
[13:32] <Jusii> no
[13:32] <Jusii> if you're looking for raspbian kernel
[13:33] <Jusii> sreenad: see what diederik said
[13:34] <gordonDrogon> sreenad, yes.
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[13:39] <sreenad> sudo apt-get source linux-image-3.10-3-rpi this is not working for me
[13:40] <Jusii> it's something like linux-source...
[13:40] <Jusii> apt-cache search linux-source
[13:41] <sreenad> I am a linux newbie . Could pls give me the command to get the source. That woul rellay helpfull
[13:41] <Jusii> above gives you the package name you're looking for, after that: apt-get install <package>
[13:43] <Jusii> and after that the source package goes to /usr/src
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[14:02] <sreenad> hi jusii,i gave the command apt-cache search linux-source and i got the following result,linux-source - Linux kernel source with Ubuntu patches linux-source-3.2.0 - Linux kernel source for version 3.2.0 with Ubuntu patches
[14:02] <sreenad> i think this is not the one i am looking for
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[14:05] <Jusii> so you're not running commands in RPi / raspbian but on a ubuntu computer
[14:07] * Lupinedk is now known as lupinedk
[14:08] <Jusii> sreenad: http://archive.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/l/linux-3.10/
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[14:31] <diego__> I have a MRF24J40MC i soldered to a cable and connected it to spi pins at the P1 header. how do i start using it? what do I need?
[14:32] <sreenad> thanks jussi
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[14:36] <diego__> it is supossed to have some support using mrf24j40 module (for Microchip MRF24J40 device connected directly to the CPU/SoC via SPI bus) but insmod mrf24j40 doesn't find it. where is it?
[14:39] <Jusii> sreenad: have fun
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[15:36] <diederik> Hi! I have a (very) basic raspbian system, started with raspbian-ua-netinst and installed kernel, bootloader/firmware and apt-utils and aptitude.
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[15:37] <diederik> I want to use that system as a base for some experimenting and after the experiment is over, I want to return to that base system.
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[15:37] <diederik> Is there a way I can run it in non-persistent mode, like a (debian) live image?
[15:37] <gordonDrogon> just get a 2nd SD card...
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[15:38] <Jusii> or learn a bit aufs/overlayfs and mount it over /
[15:38] <dillon12> hey can u tell me in what land this channel is
[15:38] <Jusii> internet
[15:38] <diederik> Another way would be to store the contents somewhere else and transfer it back to my SD card.
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[15:38] <Jusii> right
[15:39] <diederik> gordonDrogon: I have a 2nd SD card, but how does that help me?
[15:39] * blkaway is now known as blkhawk
[15:39] <diederik> Jusii: thanks for the aufs/overlayfs pointer :)
[15:40] <diederik> (but if there's a simple way to achieve my goal now, I'd prefer it)
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[15:41] <dillon12> KICK!!!paultag
[15:41] <paultag> ?
[15:42] <dillon12> where you from
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[15:42] <paultag> Why did you say KICK?
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> put one project on one SD card, and another on another, etc.
[15:42] <diederik> it's interesting non-the-less, since debian live uses it too
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> no needs to restore an SD card back to whatever was on it.
[15:42] <dillon12> i just wanna see if my internet connection was rigth
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[15:43] <diederik> gordonDrogon: I don't want to try out different distributions or sth like that. In that case another SD card would do the trick.
[15:43] <gordonDrogon> ok
[15:44] <dillon12> RASPBIAN
[15:44] <diederik> I basically want to add support for debconf preseeding to raspbian-ua-netinst, but what I have now doesn't do what I want. So I want to be able to start over and over again, until I get it right.
[15:44] <gordonDrogon> create your base system - copy it to another PC/Laptop, play with it, then just copy the base back to the SD card every time you want to start-again?
[15:45] <diederik> that's exactly what I want!
[15:45] <gordonDrogon> if you have another Linux system with an SD card reader, then use rsync to make the initial image, then rsync it back with --delete.
[15:46] <diederik> That sounds like what I want, thanks!
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> just make sure you get the rsync parameters the right way round - especially when using --delete!
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> I used rsync to 'clone' SD images - it's much faste than using DD on a large partition.
[15:47] <diederik> So it's basically just copying all the files of the system back and forth :)
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[15:47] <diederik> excellent :)
[15:47] <dillon12> I got a linux ubuntu laptop but if i put it on then it says gnome not correctly installed but someone said to me my hardrive was full but how do i delete something
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[15:48] <gordonDrogon> dillon12, you might be better off looking for an ubuntu channel - but the 'rm' command deletes stuff.
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[15:49] <dillon12> what must i do? the laptop is so about 2years now
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[15:52] <gordonDrogon> you need to find someone who knows more about ubuntu than me, I've never used it.
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[15:53] <diederik> !ubuntu
[15:53] <diederik> no dpkg bot running here? ;-)
[15:54] <diederik> dpkg: !ubuntu
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[15:58] <dillon1245> gordonDragan if i press ctrl+F1 it shos i must enter my details username and password then it shows me the last time i logged on but then there stands enter a command
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[17:53] <diederik> Hi! Earlier I asked for help on restoring my raspbian system. In order to not mess things up because of typos etc, I've made a script for it: http://paste.debian.net/91250/
[17:54] <diederik> But when I plug my SDcard in and try to run it, it fails. But I don't know why. Script invocation: http://paste.debian.net/91251/
[17:54] <diederik> Hopefully I'm missing sth obvious, but I can't see it. Anyone who does?
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[17:57] <Dagger> diederik: $DEVICE1 and $DEVICE2 aren't defined
[17:57] <Jusii> "$DEVICE"1
[17:57] <Jusii> should do on mount what you want
[17:58] <Dagger> also you really should put `set -e` at the top of scripts like this, lest they go and do something scary when a command fails
[17:58] <Jusii> and "$DEVICE"2
[17:58] <Dagger> "${DEVICE}1" would also work (and probably without the quotes too)
[17:59] <Jusii> Dagger: I think that's more correct syntax
[17:59] <diederik> excellent suggestions :) What does 'set -e' do?
[17:59] <Dagger> quit immediately whenever a command fails
[18:00] * frank1e (~frank1e@unaffiliated/frank1e) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:00] <Dagger> (or specifically, when a command returns a non-zero error code)
[18:00] <diederik> thanks! Added.
[18:02] <diederik> Awesome, it's working great now :)
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[18:04] <Jusii> set -u isn't bad either, script will exit if trying to use empty variable
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[18:05] <Jusii> so that rm -rf $DEVICE/ might become rm -rf /
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[18:18] <diederik> will look into it, thanks Jusii
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[18:53] <NineX> op ksoh
[18:53] <NineX> op kosh
[18:54] <NineX> oops
[18:54] <NineX> sorry
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[19:21] <Nolif> hi
[19:21] <Nolif> question, where i can find a rasbian image without gui only commandline?
[19:24] <Baikonur> http://www.linuxsystems.it/raspbian-wheezy-armhf-raspberry-pi-minimal-image/ I'm going to install this one later on today, I assume it has only commandline
[19:25] <Baikonur> it's linked to at raspbian.org so I assume it's been tested to be working and reliable
[19:26] <ppq> just use the net installer
[19:27] <ppq> https://github.com/hifi/raspbian-ua-netinst
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[19:33] <Nolif> thx u two
[19:33] <Nolif> i try to install the netinstaller
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[19:41] <Nolif> bye
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[21:19] * 17SAAAABX is now known as guysoft42
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[21:25] * NikkiPi (~pi@cpc26-newt30-2-0-cust104.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspbian
[21:26] * NikkiPi (~pi@cpc26-newt30-2-0-cust104.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has left #raspbian
[21:30] * Fusing (~fusing@ Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
[21:32] * OutOfLine (~user@82-220-73-113.dslplus.solnet.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:34] * Killerwolfie (~Killerwol@c-24-7-233-176.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:36] <diederik> if you want to use debconf to automate (parts of) the installation, do you need to preseed the debconf database before installing the package? Or can it also be done after installation (and do dpkg-reconfigure afterwards)?
[21:39] * lupinedk is now known as Lupinedk
[21:44] * [SkG] (~Esqueje@unaffiliated/skg/x-897332) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:52] <gregc2_> in raspbian in /etc/network/interfaces to set a wifi card to use a specific ap you can use wireless-ap macaddr right?
[21:57] * basti (~basti@xdsl-89-0-105-131.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:00] <diederik> anyone here with experience in using debconf?
[22:01] * _yoy_ (~YoY@ Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[22:03] * _yoy_ (~YoY@ has joined #raspbian
[22:05] * _yoy_ (~YoY@ Quit (Client Quit)
[22:06] * blkaway is now known as blkhawk
[22:06] * _yoy_ (~YoY@ has joined #raspbian
[22:12] * blkhawk is now known as blkaway
[22:18] * mpmc is now known as mpmc[BNC4FREE]
[22:18] * ppq (~ppq@unaffiliated/ppq) Quit (Quit: ja)
[22:23] <gregc2_> anyone know how to disable power wifi transitions in raspbian?
[22:24] * diederik (~diederik@f191104.upc-f.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[22:30] * DrShoggoth (~prakwtf@68-188-85-162.static.stls.mo.charter.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:33] * vagrantc (~vagrant@freegeek/vagrantc) has joined #raspbian
[22:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o vagrantc
[22:35] * blkaway is now known as blkhawk
[22:52] * Killerwolfie (~Killerwol@c-24-7-233-176.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspbian
[23:12] * Eurbus (~Eurbus@wsip-68-14-225-106.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving...)
[23:25] * Killerwolfie (~Killerwol@c-24-7-233-176.hsd1.in.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:26] * Killerwolfie (~Killerwol@c-24-7-233-176.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #raspbian
[23:26] * piton (~piton@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:27] * taza (~zap@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[23:42] * blkhawk is now known as blkaway
[23:42] <Baikonur> hmm, having troubles logging into the netinst
[23:43] <Baikonur> doesn't seem to accept root/raspbian
[23:51] * mcnoche1 (~Thunderbi@205-168-220-129.dia.static.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: mcnoche1)
[23:56] * frank1e_ (~frank1e@95-91-223-206-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit (Quit: Uh, what happens when I push this shiny button? I guess I'll just-)

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